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Buy the game. That’s it. You bought everything you need.
That is what I miss seeing in games.
I would like games to arrive as a single complete package, but I was relatively fond of expansion packs from games like RollerCoaster Tycoon.
They took the game you already had, and pretty much doubled it, they were fantastic!
Far better than any modern DLC for sure.
Expansion packs are the grandparents of DLC. They took something great and corrupted it to try and wring us for all we’re worth.
Actually, DLC is the grandparents of DLC.
Earliest examples I am personally aware of are the shareware and “mission pack” model of the 1990s. DOOM basically was given away for free with the idea that you play Episode 1 and then send iD money to get the disks of Episodes 2 and 3 in the mail. Not sure if they did a BBS/FTP server for that (or Episode 4), but Star Crusader is very much a game that even did the in game advertisement of their DLC. I have fond memories of working my ass off one summer so I had enough money to mail a check to some random dude so he would mail me back login information so I could download the mission pack and see what happened to Roman Alexandria when he was abducted by that ship.
The “expansion pack” model that people praise was the exact same thing, just using store shelves to distribute. Because games were big enough that it was viable to expect players to drive down to Radio Shack and pick up a copy. And the main issue with that is that it meant we needed MUCH coarser grain content because it needed to justify a physical disc printing and distribution. Everyone rightfully shits on Oblivion’s horse armor. But the actual DLC burst that Oblivion had was… not horrible. Whereas the Fallout 3 DLC model was downright amazing for giving us 3 (5?) different mini areas and quest chains. No one DLC was a full expansion (well, people say The Pitt was but they are idiots) but it meant that we got the kind of variety that we had all been wanting ever since we got tired of spending two hours in a single biome in Diablo 2.
Which gets us to where we are now. Some studios do dogshit DLC. Others do good. The Larian model has generally been to NOT do DLC but to instead release an Enhanced Edition one or two years later. I assume with the licensing and the added funding for BG3 they don’t think they will need to but, time will tell.
But, personally? I would LOVE BG3: Throne of Bhaal. Not so much whatever the shitty BG1 expansion nobody played was.
*: and… there are a lot of arguments that stuff like basically every ARPG and RTS expansion pack were overpriced as hell by modern standards. Which is funny since those are the ones that are most praised.
That was Shareware, not DLC.
Edit: The difference being with shareware you didn’t have to pay any money to try the game. Basically the game was the demo as well as a full game, and once you played the first part of it for free, and you decided you liked it, then you paid and the rest of the game you already had was unlocked.
As opposed to an f2p game with DLC? Or buying a full game and, once you played the first part of it, you decided you liked it, then you paid and the rest of the game you already had was unlocked.
I LOVE ARPGs but I am well aware that the Blizzard/Diablo model is almost exactly what people rage against. Diablo 2, Diablo 3, Dungeon Siege 1, Dungeon Siege 2, and plenty of others all followed the model of releasing the first 3-4 acts and then releasing the 4th/5th act for 30 bucks a year later.
You’re being purposely confusing and intellectually dishonest, in an attempt to control the narrative.
Then please, stop me from being “intellectually dishonest”
What is the distinction between a Free to play game with paid expansion packs and DLC and a copy of a game that came on a CD that tells me where I can send a money order to to buy extra content?
Oh, am I being “intellectually dishonest” because I am not respecting the branding? Is that the distinction?
I think wizards of the coast will demand more products that are part of baldur’s gate 3. Tbf, baldur’s gate 1 and 2 are known for their expansions. I wouldn’t be opposed to an expansion or two.
Game is an absolute masterpiece on top of it all. This kind of game needs unequal levels of support. They knocked it out of the park AND they did it all in the right way. I’m encouraging people to buy it and play if they like RPG, tabletop or even just interested in forgotten realms. One of a few games I’ve purchased for full price on Steam.
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It’s just called “Game”? It kinda reminds me of this game store in the UK also called “GAME”, all caps this time.
Yep, I bought the Original Sin 2 for full price and planning to get this for full price too.
Between this, Armored Core 6, and Starfield it looks like my gaming backlog is filled until end of year.
I literally bought OS 1 & 2 because of how much I enjoyed the EA of BG3 and how much I like the studio’s style. They deserve every penny.
Is OS1 as good as 2 though? I don’t know much about it.
I’ll be honest, I haven’t played yet. It’s on the list though!.. cries in Steam backlog
I’m curious what bs Bethesda is going to have for Starfield. From horse armor to weak mods you pay for they keep trying something with every game.
Good luck playing them all.
When buying the game actually meant something.
I love the modern XCOM games, I love card games, I love games where the story follows a new superhero in an established superhero universe, I love XMen.
Yet.
Whilst I obviously was so excited for Marvel’s Midnight Son’s I was planning ahead to ask for cash to buy it full price for a birthday or something rather (to both play right away and support games that heavily target my tastes) rather than just wait for a deep sale a few years later like I normally would, all the buy this version and add on bits ala carte or buy this version that has some things but not all things but who know which is which or buy this super version that has the entire game or buy this hyper-mega version that has all of that and also stuff that’s not actually part of the game or buy a version that has the stuff that isn’t part of the game and most of the game… bullshit, just completely killed any interest I had in it.
I might pick it up and play it one day when it’s literally a few quid but quite possibly not at this point.
Just sell me the thing. Don’t complicate it. If I need to spend ages figuring out exactly which parts of a game I haven’t even played yet I do and don’t care about so I can try to see how close to a normal price I can pay and still get all the actual game, I’d rather just use that time to go play a game that wasn’t designed by MBE’s.
If you’re a fan of xcom, midnight sons will disappoint you. The tactical depth is reduced, and it’s all around less replayable than any xcom.
I don’t need it to be XCOM.
Whereas I love playing AAA games for free because other people spend money on cosmetic items I just don’t care about.
Apex Legends? Yes please, keep charging for skins and not the game.
Tbh I don’t get the hate for this model. I’d much rather be able to play these games for free and get to try them. Skin funded games mean I’ve played a lot of games for free, and I don’t care at all about the skins (and I don’t even get why people would) so I view the skins like a donation. If I really like the game I can spend a bit of money to get a skin to support them.
I’ve played league of legends for literally thousands of hours and never spent a cent on it. I have hundreds of hours on apex and also never spent anythings. It’s way better than games where you spend like 20 dollars and then also need to spend either hundreds of hours or dollars to unlock 2/3 of the playable characters.
I mean yeah but gamers keep supporting shitty companies that provide the exact opposite in record numbers so we don’t get stuff like this much anymore.
This isn’t “gamers”. It affects pretty much everything for everyone. People these days have no backbone anymore. Everything just has to be easy and convenient and going against greedy practices is not convenient so companies can push the limits.
It’s true, you get microtransactions for everything these days. I pay a fee (technically I don’t get a discount) because I told my cell phone provider to stop sending me spam multiple times a week. I’d rather pay the couple bucks per month extra then have to deal with that bullshit.
It is fucking bullshit. Look at some vehicle manufacturers limiting their cars unless a subscription is paid. Printers. If I buy the god damned thing I should be able to use it at its full potential until I no longer want to.
Oh God printers, there was a post that made it to the frontage I think yesterday that showed a email or something from HP that stated they disabled their printer, well the ink cartridge they paid for at least, because they didn’t renew their ink subscription.
Bread and circuses. Rulers had it figured out millennia ago.
Because psychological manipulation is more effective than competence and honesty.
Absolutely, there’s a reason that ABK hired psychologist to work for them and you damn well know it wasn’t for them to have in house mental health services for their developers.
I will never understand the drones of humanity buying the same CoD game over and over. They literally remade older ones because they have no other ideas to milk their fan base. It’s horrible.
BattleBit scratched my Battlefield itch after all these years of shitty games from DICE.
We REWARD incompetence and liars by doing pre-orders and still buying games that have been reported to be buggy or full of in-app purchases, etc.
So why is anyone surprised that this shit happens?
You’re absolutely right, complacency on behalf of the consumers is what has given rise to the trend of spending real physical money on in-game currency.
The problem with DLC, is that content is undifferentiated. Meaning things like skins, music, artwork, etc. Are in the same boat as new zones/maps, characters, equipment, etc. Publishers use FOMO by bundling cosmetics with actual ‘new’ experienceable content.
“IT MUST BE THE NEW WAY” They thought.
And so they continued going that way.
I mean yeah but gamers keep supporting shitty companies…
Yeah, shitty companies like Valve with their lootbox nonsense and other gambling mechanics are really bringing the industry down.
They’re entirely cosmetic in Valve games as far as I’m aware
The argument of cosmetic only microtransactions is also a bit of a weak one because it’s the sort of content that would usually just be in the base game, unlockable via gameplay or tied to cheat codes. At least this used to be the case.
Cosmetic only is still better than other types but it’s still a case of the lesser of two evils.
Yeah, the only reason anybody says that is because we’re so desensitized by pay-to-win mechanics and games being released half finished with day 1 dlc to fill the gaps, so we say “at least it’s better than that”
Remember horse armor? I bet there’s plenty of video games out now with cosmetic horse armor for sale.
What’s wrong with it? Literally every single gameplay-related item in both Dota and CSGO are free. 100%, no strings attached. You can experience the entire game and what it has to offer without spending a dime. At some point you have to charge for something. These companies aren’t making these game out of charity, they are in fact businesses. You can criticize the methods they use to push them (lootboxes, BP, etc) but I don’t see a problem with the concept.
We game for what we game for. Some people game for the cosmetics. They are selling what consumers buy. I’m not saying it’s right. But if they keep buying why wouldn’t they sell it?
Cosmetic-only microtransactions in Free to Play games are absolutely fine, and should be encouraged. Those games wouldn’t exist without them.
In paid games it’s a different matter though, sure.
I like the way Grinding Gear does it with POE, a FTP game supported by cosmetic-only micro transactions. The stash tabs are the closest thing to “pay to win”.
Yeah, I like Valve but fuck those loot boxes, their tolerance of gambling, and screw that bs excuse of “it’s only cosmetic” because we know it’s not and it preys on the same insecurities and uses the same psychological tools to maximize profits using addiction.
Yes, Valve’s CS loot boxes and ignoring of the gambling sites that profit off of gamers addiction is absolutely bullshit but you’re a disingenuous troll if you think Valve is the leading offender of shitty monetization rampant in the industry.
The fact that the best marketing for games these days is just: “Don’t be a greedy bastard” really says something about the industry
Yeah i had no interest in buying this because it’s just not my kind of game.
But seeing this makes me what to buy it
Thankfully none of the games I’m interested in playing have MTX. Indie is where it’s at.
This really isn’t exclusive to games either.
Yeah, and the best part is, you don’t even have to live up to it. People will buy it wholesale, anyway.
They have day 1 DLC with features such as re-adjusting your character paywalled.
https://store.steampowered.com/app/2378500/Digital_Deluxe_Edition_DLC/
…this comment is incorrect, read the DLC page you linked it says nothing about re-adjusting your character.
It’s not incorrect and yep, that’s marketing for you. It’s hidden behind DLC exclusive “Mask of the shapeshifter”.
https://www.hitc.com/en-gb/2023/08/04/baldurs-gate-3-how-to-change-appearance/
https://www.pcgamer.com/baldurs-gate-3-deluxe-edition-items/
It’s still incorrect, I read that. The item may be considered a micro transaction but it doesn’t paywall re-adjusting a character on the fly
It gives you access to the shapeshift spell, which lasts for the duration of the cast before wearing off.
This used to be the way with all games. You had one version. It was one game and everyone got the same thing. All the additional stuff is just a normalized scam.
This statement alone works better than any advertisement they could have made
People would stop putting micro transactions in games if users stopped paying for them.
I might be wrong, but aren’t whales the target demographic for microtransactions? It’s not like the majority of players are buying them. It’s a “vocal” minority that make the business model viable via insane spending habits and the rest of us just have to deal with it.
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Wow. 5k is more than I’ve spent in total for all phones I’ve owned and the software too. I’m in my early 30s.
Back in college I worked at a big box store (so pretty much everyone was making minimum wage) and one of my coworkers told me he spent something similar on Clash of Clans. Absolutely insane
This is the problem with the whole “vote with your dollar” thing overall. Going by net worth, the median net worth of an american family is $103,500. Jeff Bezos, otoh, has a net worth of 152 billion. That means that he has 1468999 times as many votes as the average person. That’s about a third the population of America. If we “vote with our dollars” because “the free-er the markets, the free-er the people” then one guy has the same power as a full third of the country’s population. As inequality increases, the middle class is disappearing. The number of people with effectively no voice at all is increasing, and the number of people with a voice that can speak over the populations of entire states is also increasing.
That’s true of lots of predatory behavior and doesn’t excuse it. Even if 90% of people don’t use them, the whales make it worth it. People with addictive personalities or so much money that it just means nothing to them. And we all suffer for it.
I don’t see how games having microtransactions necessarily hurts anyone else
Many games wouldn’t exist at all without said microtransactions (looking at you, League of Legends) and I vastly prefer having those games to not having them
The same could be said of literally every single product that magically became way more expensive post pandemic for no justifiable reason.
My partner and I have started using the vague “Y’know, covid…” to dismiss anything without explaining it. It comes from when I was in the hospital and they wanted to stay on the couch in my room with me. They were told that they couldn’t, and when they asked why the nurse just said “y’know, covid…”. Now in real life, the best covid policy is to stay, not to go out into the world and come back. But after 3 years of all sorts of knock-on craziness due to the pandemic people who work in customer service seem to have realized that they can just say “you know, covid…” to almost anything and everyone else will just be like “Yeah…”
Drug dealers would go out of business if users would stop paying for them.
If my rooster was a chicken it would lay eggs
If my grandmother had wheels she would have been a bike
Problem is that 99% often income is often generated by 1% of the players
People would stop gambling if casinos only served drinks!
They’re all like that until investors get involved.
Most Sony exclusives are exactly this way as well.
It’s typically when multiplayer gets involved that the investors start rubbing their hands together.
Some single players, specially ones made by Ubisoft are becoming absolute money grabbers as well. Gran Turismo 7 was also a bit disappointing since they are also selling the virtual currency for actual money, while forcing you to grind a lot.
There are more armor sets in Assassin’s Creed Valhallas premium store than are in the base game
Thing is I played some of the recent Assassin’s Creed and Far Cry games, and I noticed them holding the begging bowl out, but much like with Mass Effect 3 (which was the first place I saw this), I can’t work out who it’s targeting.
Just basic playing of the game and the actual main and side story content (and I’m not grinding repeatable quests or doing randomly generated content dotted all over AC Odyssey’s map) will get you everything you need to finish it, and leave you with giant piles of resources left over. Just who is buying this?
I think there’s an absurdly rich demographic out there that just wants the “skip” items for a strange sense of prestige. They’re not very logical people, and some would argue they probably didn’t earn their millions.
Same with GTA, people moan about shark cards but if you actually play the game then it’s impossible not to make huge sums of money - sometimes I go.on to do some races, shoot up some gangsters or run some missions because that’s why I got the game then I see I’ve got a couple of million so I buy a new jet or something.
There are people who only seem to play to tick off all the boxes and get the highest numbers, I even had someone tell me it’s not worth doing certain races because they don’t pay well - it’s a game not a job!
But like you said, there are a lot of very rich people with this mentality and they’ll use real money to buy a gold plated luxury jet which isn’t even especially fun to fly and has no in game purpose simply because it’s there - not to knock my friends who’ve brought it because it’s fine to RP in and they like everyone else have stacks of cash because it’s fun speedrunning cayo.
Yup. Which is why I look at things like these and the words that comes to mind is - “for now”.
Fortunately the majority shareholder said he has no intention of selling for this exact reason.
This is the right way, but also it’s entirely ridiculous that it has to be said.
If I owned a small grocery store chain, and I had a website FAQ, it would be weird if it said, “Will my kids be taken by strangers and trafficked out of the country while I shop?” And even if the answer was, “No. We firmly believe you should remain in possession of your children at all times and no one else, so that you can enjoy your family.” it would still be weird that we were talking about it in the first place - because yes, that’s nice and all, but it shouldn’t even be an issue worth discussing.
It shouldn’t have to be said, true, but if other grocery shops let this happen, and in fact designed the grocery store to make kidnapping easier, I would love to see it called out on your website.
Obviously you haven’t been to Gibbons Markets.
It’s the Fairsley Difference
Glad someone picked up what I was putting down :)
Funny enough (and sad to say), he commented on it in this context actually in a VICE article,
A lot of the sketches in Mr. Show seem to carry added relevance today. The “Worthington’s Law” skit is basically Donald Trump. Is the show’s prescience eerie to you? Yes! I don’t like when reality is a joke—when it plays out like a by-the-numbers satirical comedy scene written by a bunch of goofballs. Reality should be more complex than that—it shouldn’t be so obvious. It should be more textured. But it isn’t! The “Fairsley’s Foods” skit was what happened in the last election. FOX News was Fairsley’s Foods, just throwing up these accusations that you have to respond to, and by responding them you make them legitimate. But you have to respond to them, so you’re just screwed.
The weirdest thing isn’t that Trump follows Worthington’s Law—it’s that so much of America would completely agree and live by the logic of “if you make more money, then you’re smarter.” They believe that’s true. I don’t know if they know that Jesus didn’t make a lot of money in his life, but supposedly they think he’s pretty smart. It doesn’t make any sense."
Ahh yes. And the pan sexual mascot not offending everyone, even though it’s ironically stupid and offensive
Throwing direct shade at Diablo right here. Love to see it.
Doubt.
Are you just Diablo bashing because it’s in vogue? Because this is just bashing any game that does micro transactions. I don’t see how it’s specifically calling out Diablo.
they have day 1 dlc guys
I think you’re being deliberately misleading. It’s an upgrade to deluxe edition, which is a much better option than having to buy the entire game again just to get the stuff in the deluxe edition. And as far as deluxe editions go this is pretty mild considering the only in game stuff you seem to get are a unique dice skin, camp supplies and some potions, extra bard songs, extra collectible? and items referencing D:OS2.
It’s not like it’s the “From Ashes” DLC for Mass Effect 3. For those who don’t know “From ashes” was a day 1 DLC for ME3 containing missions about the last surviving Prothean. Protheans being the most important race in the story and possibly even in the ME lore. And after the missions that last protean becomes one of your companions. For many it was a very important part of the lore being separated and sold as an extra purchase. I even remember the late great Totalbiscuit boycotting the entire game because of that DLC.
Technically that’s an out-game purchase.
They do, but barely. It’s just a couple of minor in game items/skins and some out of game music/art. Still leaps and bounds better than locking entire missions or characters behind deluxe edition nonsense.
And it’s mostly stuff for the beta testers to receive for free
What DLC?
The “DLC” is the digital deluxe version which you can purchase later. If you pre-ordered you got it for free. It’s stuff like a digital art book, and weapon skins.
The weapon skins are debatable but since there are no other skins really in the game as far as I can tell I don’t really see it as an issue in the slightest. And the art book and soundtrack are the perfect pre order bonus imo. Especially for a game where they actually used the early access properly, it’s a nice thank you I feel like.
Ah yes, but you see that is a macrotransaction.
Fair play to them, but it’s kind of crazy that just delivering an enjoyable experience for your customer is something to be lauded in the gaming industry…
starts game
sees thing
rolls perception
touches thing
party had died
“Just like I remember!”
I didn’t even know about this. This is awesome, but the last thing I’d like to know is does it have predatory online requirements or can you play offline and not be forced to log in to play?
If it ticks that box I’ll buy this.
Edit: found it in the FAQ, yes you can!
What are they talking about? Yes they do: https://store.steampowered.com/app/2378500/Digital_Deluxe_Edition_DLC/
Mind you, I am not even mad, because they are extra superflous items from DOS2, so whatever, but they definitely have at least dlc for in game items. I guess that isn’t really technically an in game purchase in the same way a dark pattern loot box is, but also in a single player game it is pretty much the same thing.
I am really supportive and happy for what Larian has done, but I think it is kind of naive for them to be beating their chest about this. Wizards of the Coast will one day probably force them to release monetized items, or charge for extra modules. I don’t think they will be unfair about it, but come on.
Is DLC an in game purchase though? I think they are specifying not having micro transactions.
DLC purchased through steam isn’t “in game”.
Edit: I just checked out the DLC and meh 10 bucks for a starter kit, dice skin, and emote.
You’re right, but it does fly in the face of what the actual text in the OP says.
I agree it’s not a bad deal, but it’s still exactly what they said they didn’t want to do
I dunno. They’ve provided this for free for Early Access backers (like me), which they didn’t need to do and none of this is required to enjoy the game. I just considering it as a bonus for backers and a small top up for people who don’t want to miss out.
it kinda doesn’t though, unless you’re able to complete the transaction from within the game. I’m okay with paying $10 for what is essentially a digital t-shirt that says “I paid the $10” and has no effect on gameplay.
Saying it doesn’t count if it’s not in-game feels pedantic - pretty sure you can’t buy shark cards inside GTA either
And the DLC does include functional items that affect gameplay
I’m not saying it’s an egregious example of it, but its not just cosmetic stuff, and it’s a lot more like a microtransaction than an actual DLC
I mean but come on, dlc for in game items - I don’t care how you slice it, that’s a microtransation, even if you don’t purcase from within the game UI.
Let’s hope they keep it this way for future games! I am not sure why this game got so much attention, games like this normally never draw this big of a crowd but I am happy it is. I am sad because I have to wait a month until the ps5 version drops but then again I’m also glad I am not waiting for the Xbox version either! It will definitely be a day one purchase just to support them as much as possible. Hope they sell enough to continue doing what they want.
The last DnD-based AAA game was like 15 years ago? People have been craving for this kind of game for years and had to satisfy themselves with remakes and ports until now.
Yeah but you also had the Owlcat Studios Pathfinder games, which didn’t draw as much of a crowd despite being the same genre.
I might be wrong, but I’d wager it has to do with the popularity of DnD vs Pathfinder. That and the nostalgia from BG 1 and 2.
BG1 and 2 are some of the most beloved CRPG games ever made. On reddit, the Baldur’s Gate sub was still very active and I would guess people were continuing to do full play-throughs at least once a year, myself included (and that’s like 20 years after BG1 came out). I don’t know of many other games with that kind of following, so I’m not surprised at the interest in BG3. Plus, it looks like the devs really took their time and delivered a great game at launch, which doesn’t really seem to happen much these days.
I don’t even know if the Pathfinder games are co-op. BG3 is co-op and it is coming to PlayStation very soon
I think it has to do with the current popularity of DnD in general.
