- cross-posted to:
- games@sh.itjust.works
- cross-posted to:
- games@sh.itjust.works
A patent filed by Nintendo suggests that they’re working on Hall Effect style joysticks for the Switch 2 that would eliminate stick drift almost entirely.
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Joycon drift, and all other thumbstick drift, is already a solved problem.
- Use bushings that actually have some abrasive resistance and aren’t softer than a fingernail.
- Use a non-contact based sensor to determine the XY position of the stick. Hall effect, optical, strain gauge, whatever, we’ve had the tech for 50 years.
The reason why they haven’t done this is one very simple reason: $$$
Isn’t the N64 controllers using optical sensor and those are one of the worst controller ever existed?
N64 does use optical sensors, the n64 stick is actually super precise and doesn’t suffer from drift. The n64 is a goofy controller but it is simply a great and accurate input device, and a lot of the games were really designed with that stick and notches in mind.
But it is made of all plastic and features plastic on plastic moving parts, without lubrication, so it suffers from wear of the plastic. Worn n64 sticks will actually be filled with plastic dust from the stick and gears literally sanding themselves down. The only problem with the controller is the premature wear of the stick.
It’s crazy to me that no company ever made a decent 3rd party N64 controller. The 3rd party ones were all as ridiculous as the defaults. Great console that I loved, but would have gotten a lot more out of with better controllers.
The sensors on the N64 are basically the same kind you’d find in a mouse wheel. They work fine.
The crap part is the physical construction. There’s a lot of parts that wear down with use and cause the joystick to become loose due to the plastics wearing away.
N64’s issues came from the bushings wearing out, the sensors were still very good
the reason the n64 sticks suck is down to the stick tension construction and not really the sensing mechanism. Pretty much the thumbstick was pressed against a plastic bowl that wore away into white dust through use, making it floppy. it didn’t really have anything to do with the fact that it was an optical stick
I’ll believe it when I see it. Nintendo are cheap bastards, and if they fix the drift issue then they’ll likely cause it to fail prematurely somewhere else. Maybe the rubber will be cheaper so that it wears down and has to be replaced anyways? Or the plastic will be thinner so it cracks sooner, etc.
Also if they wanted to fix it for their next console, then they could have fixed it for this console. Hall effect isn’t some new technology, the dreamcast controller had it.
I’m betting on sticky buttons or triggers.
Nintendo deserves class action here tbh.
there was a class action lawsuit about this… all it resulted in was nintendo having to provide free repairs to joycons… that eventually will start drifting again
Glancing over the patent, I don’t think Hall effect sensors are used here. Note especially the use of a fluid, and the presence of variable resistors (parts that can wear out in current-gen controllers) for each axis.
Instead, this looks like an analog stick force-feedback mechanism that could also be used for automatic re-centering:
Accordingly, in the first example, control of current to be applied to the MRF is performed in the way as described below, thus achieving both presentation of a feeling using the MRF and an initial position restoration operation.
This wouldn’t keep the potentiometers from wearing out, but with the right software, I imagine it could automatically adjust the sticks to compensate for mild drift. (I don’t know if this would work any better than plain old calibration; it’s definitely more complicated.) Also, games could dynamically adjust stick resistance, like the DualSense can adjust trigger resistance, for interactivity/immersion.
I wonder how much this would affect battery life, how long the fluid mechanism would last with normal wear and tear, and how environmentally toxic it will be when it eventually becomes e-waste.
The PDF linked in the article seems to be a scanned image, so control+F doesn’t work, but the text is searchable here: https://patents.justia.com/patent/20230280850
Title seems odd, hall effects already exist, they aren’t creating something new. Also, love my DS5 to death, best controller I’ve ever used.
I loved my Dualsense too, and then the left stick started drifting so badly, it’s completely unusable now. It’s only about a year old, too. I blame Sekiro. Both my DS4s still work fine though, and they’ve seen much more use and abuse.
I loved my Dualsense too, and then the left stick started drifting so badly, it’s completely unusable now. It’s only about a year old, too
I really think that something changed with a major potentiometer manufacturer in the past few years. I don’t recall stick drift on a PS2 controller that I used for many years, but I’ve seen it on a number of controllers from different vendors recently.
Only thing I can think of other than recent hardware problems is that maybe the controller hardware imposed a certain amount of deadzone at one point in time and stopped doing so in newer gamepads, and that masked the drift.
I really think that something changed with a major potentiometer manufacturer in the past few years.
I’ve heard a lot of hearsay that that is the case. Tech savvy people have taken apart some sticks and say that analog stick quality has taken a nosedive in recent years. Maybe it is just the effect of this sort of thing being discussed on the Internet more often, but I don’t doubt the veracity. I’ve had a few older controllers that I retired because of external wear whose internals were totally fine. Seems like controllers like Dualsense and particularly Switch Joycons are just poorly made.
I fixed my drift with a small piece of cardboard. I figure Nintendo could have eliminated some drift by increasing the material thickness in the cad file they use. They just choose not to.
Two things I notice
would eliminate stick drift almost entirely
I thought Hall effect sensors didn’t drift at all?
Second, I’m wondering what exactly Nintendo is patenting here, since Hall effect sensors are nothing new.
Yeah, I’m pretty sure they would not be able to patent Hall effect sensors. About a zillion other vendors would be able to claim prior art, especially considering they’ve been a commercial product for precisely this application for literal decades. The Gravis Stinger leaps to mind, which is so damn old it connects to a 9 pin serial port.
Nintendo is either dumb (unlikely) or doing something different (more likely).
They don’t get sensor drift, but if the mechanical centering of the stick is sub par, you can get mechanical drift. The N64 is a good example. Flawless sensors, shitty mechanical construction
Yeah?!?! You think so huh? I’m holding my breath on this one and keeping my interests in other game pads like ASUS ROG one, or the one that Logitech is making
I had to replace my original sticks this year because they finally started to drift after five years or so.
I now have some Hall Effect sticks in each side, and I haven’t had any problems in the last six months with them. I really hope they go this route for the switch 2. It makes a lot of sense for them to, as well. They wouldn’t have to deal with fixing as many, and consumers would get a better product. Could be a rare win for both parties when I’m sure there’s some bean counters going “but if the controllers break more often we can sell more controllers!”
Could be a rare win for both parties when I’m sure there’s some bean counters going “but if the controllers break more often we can sell more controllers!”
Hopefully a class-action wipes off all profits gained from that way of thinking.
What is Hall Effect?
It’s a way to detect which way the stick is pointing using magnets. It’s way more accurate and incredibly reliable.
Also because the moving parts don’t actually make contact with the sensors, the wear issues that affect joycons basically don’t exist
HI! My son just received a Nintendo Switch for Xmas. Would you mint telling me more about those Hall Effect stick i.e., brand/model? It’d be interesting to know hot to get them “just in case”. Thanks a lot in advance!
Hello! I just remembered your message.
Here’s an article about the ones I bought (though I bought them through another site besides Amazon because I’m not an Amazon fan.
Anyway, the process is pretty easy, though there are some smallish cables to be careful about.
Hey, thanks a lot. I’m not an Amazon fan as well, so I’d buy them elsewhere when/if needed.
Switch drift was so bad, im not getting the new switch unless it goes months without drift reports first.
I upgraded my joycons to the guilykit joysticks and they are wonderful. And its not even that difficult. Took me about 30 minutes for both. But it’s a shame that I had to change them at all.
Do Amiibos still work with the new sticks?
The NFC reader isn’t on the sticks, so I don’t see why they wouldn’t.
I thought they were, since you touch the stick with it.
It’s actually around the stick, not in. Check a right joycon teardown, you’ll see the antenna stuck to the inside of the shell.
Yes.
You missed this https://www.gulikit.com/productinfo/945307.html
I installed these on my wife’s joycons because she mashes the sticks like Gail the Snail. So far no issues with drift! The kit comes with all the tools you need to do the swap so it’s very straightforward.
I lost four sets of Joycon to drift. I even sent two in to be “repaired”. Talking to support was worthless - I’m convinced that the people I spoke to had never seen or used a Switch before. I don’t think they did anything other than calibrate them and send them back. I ended up buying a 20 pair of knockoff Joycon that have worked perfectly ever since.
repairing joycon drift is super easy. ifixit.com and the joystick modules are 5 bucks on amazon. People need to lose this fear over opening and repairing their own electronics.
Why, though? Let them fix it, if they’re selling broken. Especially here in Europe they have to fix it within a mandatory 2-year warranty.
It’s 3 year in Spain, since Jan 2022 (just adding info).
A bunch of controllers have extremely obnoxious security bits required. I had to get two separate bit sets to open a bunch of controllers.
what brand?
Oh, you mean the problem they refused to acknowledge that was very common for a number of years? I wish I could get a refund or replacement on my 3 OFFICIAL NINTENDO controllers that suffer from drift. But alas, I don’t live where they do business “legally”
Well cool, I hope it does. I’m not a hardcore gamer, but the Nintendo Switch interested me for the occasional mario kart session. But all the Joycon drama scared me off from buying one. I’ll hold out for a few more years before splurging - I’m in no rush, I rarely game or watch television anyway lol
does the switch pro controller use different joysticks than the joycons?
my joycons have drift but the pro controller, which I’ve used more often, is perfectly fine
No, it’s just vastly larger so the copper contact strips are also larger and wear slower.
I bought a pro controller and it had drift out of the box, sent it back immediately and just got a third party Hori controller for half the price
The technology is fundamentally the same but they are implemented differently. They joycon has less space so they needed a more compact layout. But both use potentiometers.
None of my PS4, 5 or Switch controllers have had any drift. I even used the Joycons in Ringfit for ages, and I was sure that spending months being strapped to my leg would bugger it up.
I’m not sure if I’m the luckiest person on Earth, I just don’t use them enough, or others are doing something I’m not (smoking or vaping are possibilities here, along with greasy food fingers).
