- cross-posted to:
- linux@programming.dev
- cross-posted to:
- linux@programming.dev
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That’s a bit of a disingenuous way to put it, it’s reads to me more that they want to reach out/make official what some people were already doing.
Yeah, allowing enthusiasts to represent the community and get perks isn’t crazy.
Yeah, allowing enthusiasts to represent the community and get perks isn’t crazy.
It’s not a community (like Debian), it’s a for-profit company.
It the community of their customers. That’s who these people are representing, to the company. If this was a paid position, they would no longer represent the community.
It’s the same premise as interacting with a subreddit (before Reddit went insane) and recognizing the mods there rather than trying to force the community to one controlled by employees.
It the community of their customers. That’s who these people are representing, to the company. If this was a paid position, they would no longer represent the community.
It’s PR work for the company. Nothing else and no amount of downvoting changes that simple fact.
it’s reads to me more that they want to reach out/make official what some people were already doing.
So pay them?
I wouldn’t be surprised at all if paying them meaningfully lowered their pool of applicants. I would be very surprised if it didn’t lower the quality of the feedback.
Being an “employee”, regardless of amount paid or frequency of interaction, is something that would cause issues with some people’s real jobs, especially in tech fields, and especially if they’re people who want to encourage their employers to buy Framework in the future.
It also changes the nature of the relationship with Framework, how they interact with the community, and the feedback they’re willing to pass on.
Being an “employee”, regardless of amount paid or frequency of interaction, is something that would cause issues with some people’s real jobs
So does going on business trips for other companies, paid or unpaid.
Going to an event is a business trip if and only if you get paid for it. People go to conventions all the time.
The people I’m talking about would absolutely be disqualified from a paid position and have absolutely no issue with an unpaid role.
have absolutely no issue with an unpaid role.
Then clean my house in an unpaid role. Brainwashing people to accept unpaid jobs for for-profit companies are unpaid workers, no matter if you make up excuses for that or not.
I clean up local parks for free, but if the city tried to pay me for it, I’d probably stop doing it. I don’t want to do it as a job, but I sometimes get in the mood to do it for free.
If I’m in the mood to clean up your house, I might just do it. But there can be no expectations on how or when I do it, and if I throw out that thing you really like, well maybe you shouldn’t have given me the keys.
The important thing is that there are no expectations. As soon as there are expectations, it becomes a job and I should be compensated for it. But if I can come and go as I please, say and do what I please, and there are no expectations on either end, I shouldn’t be paid.
Cool, did the city put up an ad asking people to apply for that unpaid job? If not, it’s not the same.
It’s not a fucking job, doesn’t resemble a fucking job, and if it was a job, most people couldn’t do it.
It’s an acknowledgment of members of the community to open a line of communication.
It’s not a fucking job, doesn’t resemble a fucking job
Oh jeez, I hit a nerve.
Exactly. If I really liked Framework laptops and Framework was forced to pay me, I’d refuse and probably stop posting about them. Getting paid for something makes it a job, and a job has expectations. I do hobbies because there’s no expectations, so I can be as consistent or as inconsistent as I want.
For example, I absolutely love Pine64 products, but I would hate Lukasz Erecinski’s job (their official “community manager”) because it takes the fun thing and makes it work, complete with expectations and whatnot. I think someone should get paid for that job, but it shouldn’t be an expectation for prominent members of the community to transition to paid positions.
That said, I wouldn’t say no to some merch as a “thank you,” but I’m not interested in merch as an expectation of future work. Maybe give me new products early to test, but not with the expectation that I’ll post a review or something (I probably will, but again, I don’t want it to be a job).
Well not “that” official.
I feel like they should at least provide them with a laptop If they’re going to do unpaid promotion.
showcase Framework laptops and parts
I’m pretty sure they don’t expect you to bring your own…
Could at least give them a framework laptop.
Our volunteer ambassadors will attend local Linux and open-source events, meet with other Framework laptop users and potential community members, answer questions, gather feedback, and showcase Framework laptops and parts to those interested. Ambassadors will be in close touch to Framework employees and they will represent the Linux community, feedback and requests directly to our engineers and to our internal Linux team.
That sounds way too close to unpaid labour. I’m all for recognizing community members with perks, merch, and other freebies; but this looks more like soliciting volunteers for unpaid PR.
Everybody was doing this in 2007 for Google, Facebook, Apple. They seem to think times haven’t changed.
I don’t like something about Framework. I’m not sure what.
I’m a big fan of what they are achieving, but if they want free labour they can just eat shit
OP, just call them “unpaid volunteers”, jeez.
“Volunteers” are unpaid by the definition.
It seems like OP wants to stress this.
Not always, in military contexts it’s used to differentiate between conscripted and those who voluntarily applied.
OP, just call them “unpaid volunteers”, jeez.
If that was for a non-profit community-driven organization, what would be the correct term. Framework, however, is a regular for-profit company that is looking for people to promote their commercial products.
I just really hate clickbait titles when you could easily put your clickbait in the description.
This isn’t a program to get people to go to conferences and rep Framework, it’s a program to give people who are already going to conferences and showing off their Framework some swag and opportunities to talk with the team. It’s not assigning work, it’s just saying thank you to people who are excited about Framework and active in the Linux community.
They already have volunteers for this cause of repairable products they believe in, hence looking for volunteers.
Those “ambassadors” are expected to take appointments via social media to show off the hardware and answer questions. That’s a job.
No? The only thing ambassadors will be required to do on social media is to list the events they’ll be attending.
Fist: Yes. "Where do I find the ambassadors in an event? Please reach out to the ambassadors on their social media if you have trouble locating them at events.
As an event attendee, what can I get from meeting an ambassador? You can get your questions answered, share your feedback, and get Framework stickers and other goodies. In case you haven’t before, you will also get to see a Framework Laptop in person."
It’s written down black on white: ambassadors need to be available on social media to schedule a meeting, reply to questions, and hand out “stickers and other goodies” (=those aren’t even for the ambassadors to keep).
Second: so there are, by your own admission, requirements tied to getting some stickers.
That’s a job. It’s not a full time job but it most certainly is a job.
please reach out to your ambassadors on social media
That != “ambassadors are required to reply”
I expect it’s layout is much like twitchcon, where you could reach out to your content creators for questions and meetups, but there is no obligation to respond.
In the case of this, these people already were attending regardless, so it’s not like they wouldn’t want to mix and mingle via social media as is.
So they have to make their social media profiles public, open up their DMs but replying to those DMs is supposedly optional? Where does it say that in the FAQ?
Exactly. If I was in that situation and Framework tried to pay me, I’d be offended. If they instead gave me an inside track on what’s going on, I’d be stoked. The difference between an employee and a volunteer is the obligations attached.
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I think this part:
Our volunteer ambassadors will [list of tasks performed]
And
Ambassadors need to [list of properties]
Along with
Bonus points if [list of properties]
Are what makes this read like a job ad for a job they’re not paying for. If they’d have posted a much shorter version with less demands, selection criteria, etc, not worded as a job ad, I’d have been a lot more charitable in my interpretation. In this case, I find it difficult to read it as anything else than “work for us, a profit-driven company, for free”.
I don’t think it’s a massive problem, but it for sure is bad communication. Ironically.
I generally don’t like this. Company fandom is bad, companies encouraging fandom is worse. Someone mentioned “but OnePlus does this!” as a counter argument and I think that’s telling something because I think they’re slimy as hell. And I had a OnePlus One and liked it.
So they’re just trying to form an official connection with the people that are already passionate about Framework. Nothing wrong with that.
