Edit: Shit, I probably should have made the title plural - “Does Lemmy need charters?”

From the great discussion below, some clarifying thoughts:

  • Not advocating for a SINGLE charter, and less of a system and more of a… convention.
  • In my universe, groups of instances could get together and come up with some common governing strategies that set them apart from other instances.
  • Given common strategies, other instances can opt in to get in on that sweet, ethical branding.
  • What I sketched out below was thinking specifically around what a single charter could look like addressing the immediate issues facing Lemmy to date. A prototype for the convention, even.

/Edit

Looooong time r/all lurker here, something like 10+ years on reddit with maybe 10 comments. I’ve seen a lot go down.

I’m seeing a lot of hand wringing around defederating Meta, Threads, and even handling problematic instances within the Lemmyverse itself.

It’s tiring to see these things come into consideration on a case by case basis, completely decontextualized from earlier crises. And the patterns are all too familiar - the big ones lately have been around (to name a few things):

  • Adopt-Extend-Extinguish (https://lemmy.world/post/467454)
  • the corrosion of commercialization
  • the never-ending gyre of “Free Speech” vs The Overton Window (nazis are bad, vaccines are good)

This definitely isn’t a new idea, but at in these early days of the Lemmyverse, we can take our collective past experiences, good and bad, on other social media networks, and define some sort of Lemmy charter that sets standards for ethos and quality control. I’ll start:

  1. Don’t federate with for-profit or commercial institutions
  2. TBD

Because we’re done with the for-profit, commercial web, right? In the last couple of days, my brain has taken all the all the Lemmy posts and comments on the subject, mashed it all up, distilled it, and keeps coming back to this idea of non-profit/non-commercial entities.

but y tho?

Because loose, institutional underpinnings could, like a mycelial network, feed the Lemmyverse. And mycelial networks are dope.

Here’s a proposed methodology:

  • Initial Core* Lemmy instances define a charter of guidelines about behavior, ethos, standards
  • Lemmy instances that adopt the charter get known as “Charter Instances”
  • Charter instances have a say in the upkeep and development of Charter… things.

*We’d have to think about what that initial “Core” means - maybe the first X instances to have reached Y number of users? Beyond bragging rights that They Were There when the charter was created, no other special status would be conferred.

And because I’m an anarcho-syndicalist:

  • Charter status is basically just a blue checkmark that just says “hey, we’re cool, folks”
  • An instance can walk away from the charter, no biggie
  • Charter instances can determine if another instance is violating the charter and take away their status, or choose to update the charter to be inclusive
  • Instances wouldn’t be limited to just the charter for guiding principles once adopted, instances can do whatever
  • The charter should probably be Super High Level, descriptive rather than prescriptive, to allow communities decide how to interpret and implement

And because I have ADHD, and this is currently over-stimulating my brain:

  • Different charters developed by different communities! Mix and match! Merge!
  • Creation of a Charter .org non-profit foundation that provides material support to new or struggling instances!
    • and compensation for software maintainers!
    • and legal support when necessary!
    • and maybe maintains the technical specification of what makes a lemmy a lemmy!

Alright, ADHD has run its course. Back to lurking for another 10 years.

  • FaceDeer@kbin.social
    link
    fedilink
    arrow-up
    15
    arrow-down
    2
    ·
    1 year ago

    Don’t federate with for-profit or commercial institutions

    And right from the first point you have gone against the whole point of the Fediverse. ActivityPub is an open protocol. Anyone can implement it and use it. Anyone can federate with anyone they choose.

    Placing “non-commercial” restrictions on it is legally infeasible, and not desirable. What happens if an instance has a donation address? Or if it decides to run some ads to support itself? Or creates some kind of “premium” tier with a fee? What if a company decides to create an instance to run the “official” forum for the games or other software they publish, is that a commercial instance? Who’s going to decide these things?

    If you want to argue that some specific instance shouldn’t federate with some other specific instance, or some specific instance should have its own “charter” that it uses to make those decisions with, sure whatever. But in no way would I support a “charter” that applies to all instances.

    • Deceptichum@kbin.social
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      10
      arrow-down
      1
      ·
      1 year ago

      And anyone can decide to not allow bad faith actors (capitalists) to connect with their instance.

      This is the paradox of intolerance playing out. We have no obligation to enable these scum.

      • FaceDeer@kbin.social
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        3
        ·
        1 year ago

        The concept of having a “charter” for Lemmy doesn’t seem to mesh with “anyone can decide.”

        OP has since edited their post to backpedal from that concept, but I’m not sure what the point of calling for instance-specific “charters” are - it just codifies the “anyone can decide” thing, which doesn’t need codifying.

        • Spzi@lemm.ee
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          2
          ·
          1 year ago

          it just codifies the “anyone can decide” thing, which doesn’t need codifying.

          As I understood the idea, it is about comparability, and readability, through unification.

          Each instance can decide for itself, and most align with what I like. But I still have to figure it out for each instance individually. By finding where they post that information, understand how the information is structured, note they did not specify something the others did specify in their prose, and so on.

          If we codify what key-value pairs make up this information, and where this data should be displayed, comparing becomes much easier.

          It also allows automatic comparison. Imagine I could filter in instance browsers for policies which I do or do not want my instance to have.

    • karmiclychee @sh.itjust.worksOP
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      4
      ·
      1 year ago

      some specific instance should have its own “charter” that it uses to make those decisions with, sure whatever

      This one, yes.