For me specifically, the setup and config oftentimes is what I’m doing with the computer, the learning and knowledge gained from the practice is what I’m after, which is good because it’s significantly less fun than it used to be.

Admittedly mine is probably a non-standard case and it ties in with other things in my life.

Condolences on your loss.

Depends on how you define ‘cost’ I suppose, but seems like the trade off isn’t worth it for you, which is fair.

Some might value the perceived benefits much higher than you do.

What if the life I’m imagining I’m protecting is one where I have the option of choosing a platform/application that isn’t scraping the absolute dregs of the barrel to squeeze out that last bit of profit margin.

That’s a win win right?

Yeah, I’m going with a tiny dedicated infra bootstrapping box with all the tools I’d need to bootstrap the main infrastructure.

Using a hypervisor (proxmox in this case) I have some prebuilt vms’s and container images that I can use for the bootstrap instances so i’d not need to completely hand roll it again should it be needed.

I’m looking at cloudinit scripts to see if that’s useful for this.

I really like packer but I’m hesitant to rely on anything hashicorp until whatever they have going on shakes out.

Then I just load up the bootstrap box with the main infra code and use woodpecker to deploy.

Code and config backed up, also mirrored to newly created infra forgejo instances, just in case.

If I can get a semi presentable cloud init based bootstrap system working nicely I’ll stick it somewhere people can get to it, in case it’s useful to someone else.

Ah. OK. Thanks for clarifying

Also levels for fecal matter in most things that come from agriculture.

Milk is weird, I don’t disagree, but governmental regulations on levels of “safe contamination” isn’t a milk only thing.

I was genuinely asking because it wasn’t (and still isn’t) clear that that’s what they meant.

The dairy farm thing makes sense.

Other than cat milk, possibly? I’ve honestly no idea.

But " just eat/drink plants " will kill a cat right?

You mean cats? Are they not obligate carnivores?

I mean, yes? That’s a good summation.

The part where you get to call something “open source” by OSI standards (which I’m pretty sure is the accepted standard set) but only if you adhere to those standards.

Don’t want to adhere, no problem, but nobody who does accept that standard will agree with you if you try and assign that label to something that doesn’t adhere, because that’s how commonly accepted standards work, socially.

Want to make an “open source 2 : electric boogaloo” licence , still no problem.

Want to try and get the existing open source standards changed, still good, difficult, but doable.

Relevant to this discussion, trying to convince people that someone claiming something doesn’t adhere to the current, socially accepted open source standards, when anybody can go look those standards up and check, is the longest of shots.

To address the bible example, plenty of variations exist, with smaller or larger deviations from each other, and they each have their own set of believers, some are even compatible with each other.

Much like the “true” ¹ open source licences and the other, “closely related, but not quite legit” ² variations.

¹ As defined by the existing, community accepted standards set forth by the OSI

² Any other set of standards that isn’t compatible with ¹

edit: clarified that last sentence, it was borderline unparseable

“It’s not libre / free as in freedom so it’s wrong”.

I think it’s more “It’s not libre / free as in freedom so it’s not open source, don’t pretend it is”.

The “wrong” part would be derived from claiming its something that it isn’t to gain some advantage. I’m this case community contributions.

There’s not a handwaving distinction between open source and not, there are pretty clear guidelines.

I have also done this previously but i’ll not be using third party hosted SCM or CI for this one so it kinda rules this approach out. (I’ll edit the main post to reflect this)

Looks like manual/locally-scripted is the way, just wondered if there was something more.

Isn’t this what bootstrapping is for? Manually set up the system to the point it can be taken over by ci/cd

Indeed, was just wondering if there was some industry standard i was missing that was a bit more managed.

No worries if not.

What problems are you struggling with specifically?

You basically just pick a system, for example Forgejo - that’s comparable to a self-hosted github. Which also comes with github-like actions for CI/CD/Building

I can deploy these by hand sure, but is that the only way ?

Let’s assume forgejo and woodpecker.

I’d need to spin up each service + the db (postgres probably) for each.

Given i’d not have an SCM system or build pipelines until after they were deployed, am i just doing it by hand and hoping for the best or working with something like ansible, saving the scripts to a folder somewhere and manually running them myself?

How about future maintenance or reproducibility?

I’m fully capable of doing it by hand and not against it, just wasn’t sure if there was a commonly used bootstrapping mechanism i wasn’t aware of.

ah, apologies, i wasn’t implying that your ‘source’ was weak, it was clear you were stating a personal opinion so no ‘source’ needed.

I was using a slang term : https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=weak+sauce

I was implying your argument was weak, built on a shaky foundation of personal opinion stated as universal fact.

To me this reads as:

< preemptive justification for saying something controversial and/or indefensible >

< controversial statement with no justification or reasoning >

“Not going to explain because it’s obvious”

Probably not how it was intended, but that’s some weak sauce

Unless you’re a big corp, then fuck with impunity but make sure to pay the “cost of doing business” tax.

If the tax is too high, just buy some lobbyists or political system equivalent.

“by a wide variety of men”

I imagine your ability to definitely determine parentage, i’m assuming through observation and research, got you moved to somewhere your observational talents could be better employed ?

No point in wasting that kind of talent on the streets fighting the statistically high percentage of 15 year old bodybuilding thugs and their mothers.

Goddammit, gonna lose me some internet points but it’s just too juicy.

“Pedant”