What is lemmy.world doing defederating before hexbear even federates? lemmy.world/instances
This is what it took to defederate from exploding-heads after being federated with them since the start of lemmy.world
https://lemmy.world/post/747912?scrollToComments=true
What evidence do you have of hexbear breaking the lemmy or citizen code of conduct?
Has the criteria for defederation changed?
Hexbear is one of the largest and most active lemmy instances:
Compared to lemmy.ml:
Compared to lemm.ee:
and lemmy.world:
This instance hasn’t defederated from lemmygrad, which is by far much more of a hardline community when it comes to ideological position. Hexbear is softer than lemmygrad, its members are a mixture of ideologies of the left - democratic-socialists, anarchists and communists. It makes no sense to defederate from Hexbear before lemmygrad.
In terms of hatespeech and marginalised people it is by far the strongest and most iron-fisted instance on the lemmyverse. Having no-tolerance policy to it that goes well beyond that of anywhere else.
It’s the only instance on lemmyverse that enforces visible pronouns, without cowardly forcing people to put it in hidden profile pages. If I recall correctly the last poll that was taken showed nearly 30% of its users are trans? Maybe 20%? I can’t remember.
Absolutely hilarious that half the fediverse is preemptively running scared of hexbear (with no real reason), and we’re worried about the 'grad being too ML for them.
It’s literally just anti-socialism. I have no other explanation for it.
The fediverse has anti-social personality disorder 😁
Capitalism is so normalized it’s like the air we don’t realize we’re breathing. You get lefty instances pointing out how freaking insane it is especially with global warming, and libs lose their minds
There is a specter haunting lemmy
Replace with lemmy or w/e
It’s us, we’re the spoopy ghost!
No fuckin’ shit
may I offer you this trophy for excellence in commentary: 🏆
Could it have something to do with their post announcing intent to federate trying to both-sides the Russian invasion of Ukraine? https://www.hexbear.net/post/280770 (not even getting into the comments there)
Personally I’d be cool with defederation from lemmygrad too, for the same reason.
I don’t see how that’s relevant to the hexbear defederation. Lemmygrad takes a stronger stance on the SMO in general, we’re still federated.
So what?
Get that Kremlin propaganda BS out of here.
The second sentence is the response to your first sentence.
Idk which sentences you’re referring to here, honestly.
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also lemmy.ml the admin owners are just as woke as lemmygrad and hexbear like ive said in other comments if lemmy.world is building a safespace against the woke lemmy instances that’s their right as admins but users deserve to know so they can make an educated instance choice.
Anyone who uses the word woke can be disregarded.
Anyone who uses the word tankie can be disregarded.
Every leftist should be in jail.
Anyone that uses woke like that is just outing themselves as having more toes than braincells
you are an unhinged maoist with no basis in reality
What’s “woke” exactly about tankies? They’re just the far left version of far right fascism. They just have apologia for a different set of dictatorial oligarchies.
That describes my home country pretty well. Of course, I’m talking about the American United States.
Do you seriously not see a difference between Russia and China’s governments versus the United States?
Heck, South Korea and Japan have their own conservative shitheads in power problems as well, but they are still fundamentally democracies like the United States, whereas Russia and China are not.
The United States never was a democracy. Nowhere in the US constitution are citizens guaranteed a democracy or even a conditional right to vote.
I don’t feel like I will have any say in our elections next year, even as a citizen with the right to vote. Why should minorities wait in hours-long lines instead of working just to pick between Biden and Trump? Are the Democrats really going to help the working class this time instead of the corporations who fund them or will they just defer to the Republicans like during the Obama years when they had a supermajority?
I would argue that the policy of democratic centralism in China is much more of a democracy, where citizens can have a say in the actual policies of the country.
I don’t really mind lemmygrad users. They’re often pretty tankie, but I don’t see much trolling from them. They state their opinion about China/Russia and frequently get downvoted, but I haven’t seen them explicitly try to be disruptive to communities/people they don’t like.
I’ve been called a tankie but I never diss anyone, I like to engage in dialogue. Heck I majored in philosophy so it’s kind of my jam. It’s a pity to punch left though, especially when we’re soo buried in right wing media and thought these days.
Yeah saying lemmygrad is worse is some new kind of whataboutism lol
Isn’t Hexbear the ex-ChapoTrapHouse subreddit that started their own sub with blackjack and hookers?
I.e. they created (and, importantly, modified) their own Lemmy instance. And, supposedly, they’re working to fix what they broke, so they can rejoin with the larger fediverse without losing their content?
So before we wax paranoid about the intentions of lemmyworld admins, shouldn’t we consider that this might just be a temporary measure to prevent technical issues while they bring their fixes into production?
Let’s just wait until LW admins make their announcement before we pass judgement. I fully agree there is no political reason to defederate from them. I don’t know if their community is problematic but everything I’ve heard would suggest otherwise. And I do not know the timeframe or technical details of their supposed plan to refederate. So again, while I agree with you, I think perhaps it is a bit early for speeches.
CTH was kind of a problematic sub (quite separate from the claimed “don’t be mean to slaveholders” reason for their banning), so I’m not really opposed to not welcoming a mirror of a sub known for brigades and trolling other communities with open arms. Maybe their new administration/moderation/community is better, but lemmy.world can always federate after they’ve demonstrated that elsewhere.
That won’t happen and you know it. Once this is established there will never be any movement on it. Your position just functionally means it’ll always be defederated.
Eh, so be it. CTH made its own bed and in the thread talking about federating users are demonstrating why people should be skeptical of the value of federating with a troll-prone instance. The mods of CTH back in the day also sometimes asked their users to behave themselves, it didn’t really work. And since their admins have explicitly said they won’t police trolling elsewhere, it’s really nothing more than a passing suggestion.
In an ideal world, lemmy.world waits and sees if they’re really committed to keeping their shit on local. In a non-ideal world never federating with instances extremely likely to troll is also a pretty good choice.
Just ban the individuals that do end up being a problem it’s not fucking hard. Christ. Lemmyverse is fucking tiny I moderate bigger individual subreddits than lemmy has registered total users, with fewer mods. Handling the load from a few problem individuals is a non-issue.
Alternately make non-troll leftists join a non-troll instance if they want to just go out into the wider Fediverse without the stigma. Once they federate they won’t have to be on the CTH-successor instance, they’re choosing to be there. Like I said in my other reply to you, I don’t find the lemmygrad users nearly as trollish as CTH was. It’s not the ideology that’s the problem, it’s the trolling, and they’re pre-announcing they won’t do anything to curb trolling by their users.
CTH wasn’t just a sub that happened to have some users who also trolled, they frequently organized and bragged about trolling and brigading there. And while mods need to be ready to ban individual trolls, it’s also a volunteer activity and not dealing with a rotating cast of trolls or massive brigades could be worth shutting out some posters who wouldn’t be a problem themselves. I don’t think it’s an unreasonable stance to say “wait and see if it’s a problem”, but I also don’t think it’s an unreasonable stance to say “we know what’s likely going to happen, we’re not robots who have to pretend we were born yesterday”.
Stop calling it a troll instance ffs. It’s been here for 3 fucking years and as of like one week ago represents 25% of all content ever posted from a lemmy platform. It has a culture and community that exists for far more than that and is far more established and unique than a bunch of redditors that are mad at reddit and can’t stop posting about reddit instead of actually making this place somewhere unique and fucking interesting with its own cultural stamp and reasons to be here.
What you’re doing is just slander and it’s going to make me very hostile very fucking soon. You are throwing insults at not just me but at thousands of people that I like very very much.
CTH did more than just troll, but doing something in addition to trolling doesn’t make you not a troll. Most of the rest of Reddit didn’t experience the fun in-sub content, they just experienced its trolling and brigading, and we don’t need to pretend that Hexbear and r/CTH aren’t largely one and the same. They don’t need federation to do the internal culture stuff you’re waxing poetic about, they need federation to troll.
And I couldn’t care less whether calling CTH or your thousands of friends trolls is going to make you hostile. THEY were hostile to other people because it was fun for them. The trolling is already here via the OP. It’s tiresome and just degrades forums for their targets and everyone not in on the joke trying to figure out what their issue is. You guys don’t get to spend years trolling reddit just to say “we have a new name now, so you can’t judge us on our prior actions”.
Maybe admins will wait and see. If somehow it isn’t a huge source of trolling then I fully support federating. But I’m going to say I don’t think the odds are good. And if the admins do what you expect and don’t go back and revisit the choice I can’t say I’m going to think it’s a huge loss.
Defederation isn’t going to help trolling, when they can just make users on whatever instance they want to troll. If anything, federation will help fight trolling, since people are less likely to make throwaway accounts if they don’t need to, although idk if it’d be a noticable impact.
In any case, defederation won’t stop troll brigades.
This is the same argument about banning on Reddit, but as a former mod, my experience is that very few people will actually go through the effort to spin up an alt to keep trolling. A handful will (we had one person who put a note in their calendar to send a “mean” modmail every month for a weirdly long time), but most are just lazy bored posters who have fun messing with people they don’t like, and if they can’t conveniently browse their targets for opportunities, they’ll just go do something else they find fun rather than go through the effort. Despite accounts being basically free and meaningless, banning trolls was unexpectedly effective.
Pretty funny how you immediately abandoned this bit. Why not just be honest?
I didn’t abandon it. If they wait and see and hexbear’s users do keep the dirtbag shit to local, then they should. I just won’t really care that much if they don’t.
yeah if lemmy.world wants to make a safe space and defederate from these woke servers they need to defederate from lemmy.ml and lemmygrad.ml then be upfront about it, without an official reasoning speculation is all we can do
Woke now means, in rightwing gibberish, anything you disagree with.
woke means agreeing with whatever is the most progressive/leftist thing currently popular in the west, tankies literally do all the same things as wokes
So instead of making any effort to explain why you think the things progressives/leftists support are bad, you just call it “woke” and accuse them of being “tankies” without actually contributing anything meaningful to the conversation.
there is no discussion to be had, lemmy.world is making a safe space for conversations to be had without woke instances like hexbear.net, lemmygrad.ml, and lemmy.ml just hoping the admins can commit to this ideology and not back down like reddit.
If that was their intent then why defederate from hexbear but not lemmygrad or lemmy.ml?
i think that the admins did not know, but with this post we can show them how each one of those instances are examples of the woke internet that reddit was
They’re well aware of the ideological leanings of these other instances, and if they haven’t chosen to defederate by now, they probably aren’t going to. If you don’t like that, you’re free to move to another instance, or create your own, but you don’t get to tell the admins of other instances how to run their instances.
Lmao not the wording I’d use but I agree in spirit.
Nothins more woke than Karl Marx.
Who’s Karl Marx?
I think it’s two separate tankies on Lemmygrad, @WhatWouldKarlDo@lemmygrad.ml and @MarxMadness@lemmygrad.ml
Now I wish I would have went with a Marx themed user name instead of just the pfp lol.
Truuuue
lol the lemmy.ml admin is a self admitted marxist block them too, lemmy.world as a safe space against the woke lemmy instances is perfect. First reddit went woke now we can have a large space without that.
you seem confused
I think they’re trying to show how tankie is being used just like woke lol
I think so too, it’s just a bit muddled.
I think they’re not a native English speaker lol
Ya I agree. Harmless enough. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
I fell for the bait at first but going back and reading their comments, ita actually hilarious.
Anti-woke people unironically crying about wanting a safe space is just so deliciously ironic.
Exactly what is is. I was banned from the entire instance for asking about action against an openly hostile fascist but it turns out they agree with that shit.
whatever if lemmy is making a policial instance that is their decision better to block woke lemmy instances so they don’t brigade the discussions here.
Oh look the fascists have come out to support the fascists by blocking literally any opposing viewpoint by any means necessary.
Fucking shocker.
Have you ever considered your shit might not be that good if so much of a whiff of an alternative turns your people away from your shtick? Of course you have that’s why you’re all fucking scrambling to defederate from anything left of “slavery was actually super cool guys I swear” DeSantis garbage
what? how is lemmy.world blocking woke instances meaning i support DeSantis. I’m not even american
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They’re defending Hexbear and lemmy.ml by calling them woke. And is proud of being woke.
Woke isn’t a word that belongs to fascists.
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