This is a really good interview. tl;dw is…
- their next game was going to be D&D, but they changed course and are doing something else now
- Vincke has a vision for “the one RPG to rule them all”, and each of their past three RPGs is a step closer to it
- the next game is not going to be that master vision but one step closer toward it, with their previous 3 RPGs proving out emergent design/multiplayer, story and consequence, and personal stories/performance capture, respectively
- Vincke would like to have this next game done in 3 years compared to BG3’s 6 year development cycle, but realistically expects 4 years, as long as there isn’t something like COVID-19 or a war in Ukraine to impede their progress
Yeah Wizards of the Coast isn’t the same company as when they signed the deal for BG3.
Smart of them to ditch the sinking ship that is D&D.
Sinking ship or not, word was that Wizards’ cut of BG3 was over $90M. $100M was the entire production cost of Baldur’s Gate 3. If you could fund an entire other massive video game for the cost of what you paid your partner for licensing, I’m sure anyone would be rethinking that deal. At this point, they don’t need the D&D license any more than BioWare needed the Star Wars license after KOTOR.
Thanks for expanding on my point.
They don’t need to be associated with WotC as they keep fucking up. Other RPG systems are becoming more and more popular.
Maybe they can partner with Paizo and make the next Pathfinder game, although I’d feel bad for Owlcat because their games have been great too.
For similar reasons as D&D, I doubt they’d license someone else’s system either, but I could be wrong.
True, the Divinity games were plenty of fun with their own system
I agree, but Piazo seems like much better partners. I wouldn’t be surprised if they’d let them make the game for no fee, just license out the rules to try to make the system more well known and popular. Pathfinder 2E is the better system without a doubt, but people are used to D&D5e, so having something out there to bring new people in would be huge for them.
I don’t know. The Owlcat games have a really deep system that Divinity and BG3 don’t have. Is that just because of the pathfinder ruleset? Or does Larian do better with simpler systems? I don’t have an answer to those questions. It might be cool to see a BG3 “version” of Pathfinder, but I think it would lose something in the process.
The visuals out of Larian run laps around Owlcat. But that comes at the expense of depth, as each asset takes more time to develop.
It’s two different design philosophies creating two very different kinds of experience. Owlcat makes more of a complex digital board game while Larian has muddled a strategy format with a dating sim.
Yup, exactly!
I’ve played Baldur’s Gate 1, Baldur’s Gate 2, and Planescape: Torment on 2nd edition rules. I’ve played Baldur’s Gate 3 on 5th edition rules and started playing tabletop 5th edition. I’ve played Pillars of Eternity 1, as I understand it largely inspired by 3.5 edition rules, and the first 10 hours of Pillars of Eternity 2, which I assume is now iterating on its own offshoot. I understand Pathfinder to largely be D&D 3.5. If that’s the case, and it’s in the ballpark of what Pillars of Eternity 1 is, I’ll take 5th edition any day of the week, but if you’d like to explain to me briefly why I might be wrong, I’m listening. Compared to how the 2e games and the Pillars games handle spells of different levels, 5e’s upcasting seems like a godsend, for instance.
I understand Pathfinder to largely be D&D 3.5.
Pathfinder 1E is essentially an improved D&D 3.5 that came to be the last time the licensing for modules became an issue. 2E is it’s own thing, and a large improvement.
One if the best changes for Pathfinder 2E is how actions work. D&D 5e has its a weird system of movement, action, bonus action, and then abilities that can add actions, but you can only cast one spell per turn regardless of if you have actions to use, except in some situations, and you can only use actions for some things sometimes, sometimes only once per turn. It’s just filled with exceptions because that’s not the original design intent but it’s tons of patches to make things function halfway decently.
Pathfinder 2E you have three actions per turn. Those can be used for anything always without exception. Every ability has a cost. For example moving is 1 action and can be done multiple times per turn, which makes things that displace enemies useful as they have to consume actions to get back into melee. Some spells may cost multiple actions, some very large ones can even require channeling multiple actions over several turns. It’s a very simple and intuitive system and you don’t need to remember thousands of exceptions like D&D5e.
Almost everything in Pathfinder 2E works like this. Things may be more complex to start with (which allows for choice), but you don’t need to remember tons of exceptions, so in total it’s simpler.
It doesn’t feel like a bunch of exceptions to me. It feels like you have a bonus action that’s basically always class-related, and everything else is an action. What you describe for Pathfinder doesn’t sound bad at all, but if some things cost multiple actions, that sounds like every bit the type of exception that you make 5e out to be full of. I don’t really find 5e to be unintuitive thus far such that I’m looking for another system to remedy it, I guess.
Games Workshop whores their IP out to almost anyone, and despite being crappy about their mini stuff, they seem rather fair for electronic games.
Because they know this is the only part of their business left. Which works for them.
I’m out of the loop, what has wotc been fucking up?
Hasbro pulled a bunch of typical big corp enshitification tactics with their licensing and digital assets over the last couple of years.
They’ve also tanked the used market for people. 2 decks I had that I paid way too much for aren’t worth the cardboard they are printed on now. (MTG)
Moral of the story: run proxies. Speculators and investors ruined the market, WotC just let them do it. (Also, fuck the secondary market and the reserve list. It’s cardboard. Some of us just want to play)
Those decks were for competitive play. They wouldn’t let me run proxies.
My moral: Don’t give WotC anymore money, ever. Fuck 'em.
Wait what happened?
Reprinting some things, neglecting to reprint others, power creeping the stuff they did reprint out of the game, banning some stuff that was too powerful while printing other stuff that’s just as good for the same reasons. You know, standard card game stuff.
They do ~6B a year and clear about a billion, so that’s actually like 10% of their profit which is a lot for a company that big – wow!
any more than BioWare needed the Star Wars license after KOTOR.
Glances at Starfield
Maybe not your strongest point
Bioware didn’t make Starfield - that was Bethesda. Maybe you were thinking of Anthem? And fair point there.
I was talking about how the lack of Star Wars license didn’t stop Mass Effect from being even more successful than KOTOR, yes.
Yeah, I’ve been moving over to Call of Cthulhu with my tabletop group. I find it far more enjoyable when the players are more careful about dying or worse.
I really like the way that he thinks, with each game being a way to learn new systems / implement new tools / increase the studio’s knowledge and skill. Such a great way to take on projects - it ensures that each game brings something new to the table, and it puts you in an even better position to tackle the next project.
My only request for the next game is: please don’t have it start with the player imprisoned on a ship and for the ship to be attacked by monsters so the player can use the chance to escape into a deadly situation only to be rescued at the last second by an unknown powerful being before waking up on a beach. Twice is enough, thanks.
What if you’re imprisoned on a cart and attacked by a dragon? Or just released from prison on a boat and dropped off in a swampy beach town? The fantasy RPG genre requires starting as a convict or prisoner, you see.
Just once I’d like to start a D&D video game like a real D&D game: in a tavern trying to get wasted and then someone barges in saying something about goblins or some shit, and I’m about six deep so I say, “Fuck it, we ball.”
I love starting in a tavern and having some run in in a panic screaming “UNDEEEEEEAD!!” and just drop a horde on the table. No time to think, no time to explain. The story starts later, right now you have to fight for your life together with whomever is able to hold at least a table leg.
Allow me to introduce you to Solasta: Crown of the Magister. It was the OTHER CRPG releases based on the DnD 5e system. Much smaller budget and team, but a pretty faithful recreation.
Including the fact that the game opens in a tavern with your party throwing back beer one of them might refer to as a donkey piss (depending on which personality archetype you selected for them) while they wait for their quest sponsor to show up and tell them what’s going on. In the meantime, each character introduces themselves to the others by discussing the adventure they had on the way to the present location (as an excuse to run through some tutorials). Doesn’t get much more classic DnD start than that.
Hell yeah
Yep, that was a good game too. Different focus, and a fairly linear story. Part of what made Baldur’s Gate 3 so good was of course the amazing characters and character development. Solasta is missing that, but still a very solid and complete DnD game.
For sure. My impression is that to focus on character work in the same way as BG3 (i.e. voice acting, mocap, cinematics, etc) would have been an impossibility for the studio that made Solasta. I would guess they did not have the financial support to make that happen.
Personally, I think of it as being of a piece with the old Infinity Engine games. There was the Baldurs Gate series, which, in classic CRPG fashion, was all about player choice and character. But, side by side with those games, you had the Icewind Dale series, which was almost completely devoid of the story focus of the BG games and entirely focused on dungeon crawling and seeing how far the ruleset can be pushed.
I disagree, and now think Larian should start every game like this. Next Divinity? Pirate ship. Games Workshop has them make a game? Escape from a Citadel.
Every Tad says “ah shit, here we go again…”
Every Tad says “ah shit, here we go again…”
It’s canonically always the same Tav repeatedly getting dragged into these weird “save the world” situations.
Are we just playing high fantasy Quantum Leap?
They could turn that into a running theme, like how every Elder Scrolls protagonist is a prisoner to start with…
But Divinity already has a long history and so does Baldur’s Gate so…ehh, doesn’t fit in quite as well. Maybe with a new IP they make it a tradition for.
As long as my journey starts on a beach, I don’t care what came before.
What’s the other game? Because if it’s not Arcanum we have a 3rd.
Something Bigger Is Coming
Baldur’s Gate 5?
Larian Dating Sim 2025
That’s just BG3
No one will even hug me. This game sucks, too much like real life.
Nah, theyve secretly acquired yandere simulator
The search for Baldur’s Gate 4.
Builders Gate: the Flamethrower!
(The kids really like this one)
They could get on with BG3 = DOS3 thing and just go ahead with Divinity: Original Sin 4 for their next title.
How It Feels To Chew 5 Gum, The Experience.
Baldur’s Gate 360
Baldur’s Fence
I’m, like, oof? History repeating itself much?
There was this little RPG company, BioWare, that made this little known game called… uh… Baldur’s Gate or something. Then they made Baldur’s Gate II. And all was fine. And then they said “you know what, we should do something really cool and innovative and creative!” …And they did! They made Neverwinter Nights. And Wizards of the Coast/Hasbro was a real drag in the process, wanting them so many compliance meetings regarding the content and canon and game mechanics. So Bioware was like “OK this is the absolute last time we work with this kind of nitpickers, we’ll create our own fantasy RPG setting and system.” …and that’s how Dragon Age came about.
WotC/Hasbro isn’t any easier to work with these days, that’s for sure. Except this time, even the tabletop fans know that.
Hopefully Larian gets to eventually make the epicest dream game they can and, uh, not get bought out by EA or something.
Kinda backwards with Larian as they already made original IPs before BG3. Which were critical hits already.
The divinity games definitely felt inspired by DND. I’ve even been able to convince friends (including some who don’t play video games at all) to pick it up because of how similar it feels to tabletop. Larian was a natural choice for BG3 and I’m convinced that was part of the vision with their early work
Whether they get bought out is up to the owner(s) right? If they refuse, then that’s that.
I think Larian is already partly owned by someone (Tencent?) so EA is unlikely
Yes, despite what Larian wants you to believe, 30% of the company was sold to Tencent years ago to raise more money for BG3. Afaik Danny O’Dwyer dug that up from the irish business register because Larian never even made a statement about it. Instead they keep pointing out how privately owned they are and that there is nothing to worry about.
BG3 was a massive success, but I wonder how much of that cake is left after 450 employees, Bioware, WotC and Tencent got their pieces of that. If they really want to release a much bigger game in half the time, they’ll need to tripple their employees which will absolutely explode spendings. They have nothing else in the works until then, no mobile game cash cow or big merch sales to keep them afloat. The only way to generate more money when production costs will inevitably exceed expectations is… to sell more of themselves.
Next one ditches all the filler and just goes straight to shagging a series of elves, demons, were-bears, cthulhus, etc. One after another, there are so many cthulhus to shag and you are the chosen one.
They’re making high budget Corruption of Champions (or Trials in Tainted Space.) Yes, CoC or TiTS.
Spelljammer maybe?
Divinity 2 mechanics > BG3 even though BG3 is obviously the ultimate masterpiece. Pumped to see what they do
If we are taking about battle mechanics I hope they come up with a new system all together. I think both the OS2 and BG3/DnD mechanics were serviceable, and it was fun to play out fights. But neither was much of a challenge and fights didn’t often feel like unique puzzles.
Yeah – I just mean their ability to make a system for video games is better than paper adaptation
I enjoyed BG3 more than any game since Witcher: Wild Hunt. Do you think Divinity 2 would be for me? I am looking for a new long play game.
Absolutely.
Thank you. I will check it out.
It’s highly similar. You need to try it
Thank you. I will check it out.
yes
If you are going to play Divinity 2, start with Divinity 1
They both have differences in mechanics, but play about the same. The only main difference is that Divinity is only 2 player, while Divinity 2 is 4 player like BG3
Also, the mechanics of both Divinity games are build around it being video games. Meaning it is a better experience. In comparison with BG3, which was build as a TTRPG and only converted to a video game.
The only things I miss with Divinity are the cutscenes. Otherwise they would be as perfect (or even better) than BG3.
Thank you. I will check it out.
I’m gonna disagree with that other commenter. I’d recommend starting with DOS2 before 1. DOS2 is much more refined and generally less annoying to play. And they’re separate stories, so nothing in 2 would spoil the experience of 1
But they’re both good games worth playing, so don’t let that indecision stop you from trying either
Thank you for another perspective. I might just jump in.
Also know you can play 2 player local natively built into the story in both games so if you have a roommate or SO it’s a really fun time!
I like the idea of local coop game play. Online gaming not really my thing.
Yes. I personally prefer the combat of Divinity 2, but overall they are very, very similar games
I’m not sure I agree. DoS2 mechanic are cool, but the combat becomes way to chaotic for my liking. Also you do one mistake and now half your party is dead and the other half is on fire.
That was exactly what I loved about DoS2
That’s fair. To each their own.
Half life 3?
It’ll be legally distinct Double Quarter Life 3
Brilliant. It would allow for having HL3 while also not forcing Valve to make a 3rd thing.
Sick, looking forward to Lord of the Rings 4
Bro!
Bladurs door 1
warhammer pls
Praying for a new Kotor
No. I love the KOTOR games and hate Larian’s turn-based combat gameplay.
Please PLEASE fix the inventory mechanics/design
Pathfinder please!
I hope their “one RPG to rule them all” will be a Divinity game!
I’m hoping for Sci-Fi and the next Mass Effect.
Have they ever done Sci-Fi? Also now that they are well known in the mainstream it would make a lot of sense to make another game using their own IP, would it not?
I wonder if Larian does something new with the Disco Elysium folks (since in that PMG video they were mentioned) instead of more Divinity.
