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I’m not saying other people shouldn’t have a voice on this topic, but that discussion is a topic that is based in transphobia.
im getting tired of responding to multiple 700 page long comments from multiple people so with you im just stopping here and addressing this. By saying that cis women’s opinions and arguments on this are based in transphobia is your point of view and not theirs, they don’t view their argument as transphobic, and frankly neither do I, I just view them as having a different opinion and argument. Therefore, the first part of your sentence is directly conflicted, you ARE saying they shouldn’t have a voice on this topic, because any voice OTHER THAN YOU VOICE is ✨transphobic✨. It’s like calling someone a nazi or something. It’s an overused term. I yawn.
I think that the point cis woman make is that trans men who transitioned after puberty have different things going on with their bodies that cannot or will not be changed no matter how much work or change is done and then the concern is that a bad actor then has the average strength of a male (the general point of view being that sex-males are “generally stronger” than sex-females) will have a physical advantage that a potential female bad actor would (generally) not have. I think that is a valid concern for cis women to have I believe it is a valid discussion to be had. I will not dismiss their point of view or arguments. Plus, not all trans women are women that have transitioned - so imagine a bad actor with sexually abusive intentions, now a trans man without transition surgery is still capable of getting a cis women pregnant when a bad actor cis women cannot. I also think this is at a valid concern worth at least listening to. I don’t think you can ethically just disregard these concerns.
Yeah I’m sure that does suck and that is a bad way to handle things. At the same time I don’t necessarily know what the best way to handle things are. Speaking personally, I wouldn’t have any issue with a trans women using the men’s bathroom, but really what I see as being a solution that satisfies everyone is making some sort of intersex/intergender bathroom that just anyone can use completely regardless. Obviously its not like that can happen over night, but if you’re in a first world country like me then its really not so much to expect society to adapt to over time. It’s something most large businesses could start adopting over night. Imagine if there were some sort of government subsidy or something to help with the financial side of making that happen, could make it just a little bit faster and easier to happen. Regardless though, I’m not a cis or trans women so I don’t have a personal take on this I can’t personally understand either side of the argument, I just don’t think that one side OR the other deserves to go unheard and not listened to. As to what to do immediately to help everyone, I really don’t know.
I’m not being intellectually dishonest at all. Of course a new bathroom for trans people is not going to appear out of thin air, so what? That means that there should then never be a discussion on it? That’s fucking bullshit and I won’t agree to it. Again I don’t personally really care, but the fact that you can’t even conceive of such a thing happening so as to fit your argument is absolutely nutters and insane to me. Do you just give up on any problem that cannot be immediately resolved in every single situation in every single corner of the world?
Also, speaking as a male, and speaking as someone that has seen other men say the same thing, no man in the world will care if a trans women uses the men’s restroom.
I am not going to shy away from the conversation because you want to be offended and then tell me bye.
“there are no discussions that can be considered sound from an ethical standpoint when it comes to viewing me as a human or subhuman”
And who exactly made that claim? No one did. My friend, you are not a subhuman, you’re just a human like anyone else. This discussion has nothing to do with who or what is and is not human, and frankly speaking I know you know this. I am not a woman at all either, I am MERELY stating that I’ve seen cis women and trans women having discussions over this topic because of cis women concerns and I am not so quick to just throw their opinions and arguments in the trash as you are simply because you don’t agree with them or don’t like what they have to say.
It’s kind of ironic because what this tells me is that you subconsciously view cis woman as being subhuman because you view their opinions and arguments as invalid or unethical when what is really happening here is a conflicting series of opinions and arguments. You simply want cis women to conform to your standards and shut up. That’s… acting like a fascist.
- awesome thanks for educating me
- no I am not, I personally know trans people and I have nothing against them whatsoever. You’re just unwilling to admit that other people can have valid opinions other than your own if it doesn’t immediately fit into the view of the ideal world you have in your head. You fail to realize that other people have their own ideas of a what an ideal world looks like, or you just don’t consider their views to be valid, in which case you are doing the very same thing to them that you are accusing them of. So what it then comes down to is the need for a discussion between the two opposing groups to figure out what to do and how to reconcile. For the record, I don’t have a personal opinion on who should use what bathroom, I was merely stating that if cis woman feel that sharing that space with trans women is not safe or ideal for them then they should have the right to express that opinion, be heard and have a discussion on it. What you want to do is pretend you are not acting like a fascist while telling them to shut up and just live it and not express their opinion. What I am doing is saying that both ends of the spectrum should be heard there.
I was permabanned because I took part in a wider discussion on the r/games subreddit (hogwarts thread) that devolved a little bit into talking about trans issues down in the lower comments somewhere. I basically agreed with someone that if CIS women don’t exactly feel comfortable sharing a bathroom with trans women and that if they wanted to have a discussion around that then that was a reasonable opinion to have and thing to do, and I guess the moderators thought that I was calling for trans genocide or some other insane BS.
Well that is super disappointing.
Removed by mod
Removed by mod