Like isnt android linux already? Why Not just fork it if everyone is unsatisfied with google and pushes for linux phones?
Am I missing something?
a more technically correct term for the non-android “linux” (minus the kernel) is freedesktop. but “freedesktop phone” would sound somewhat weird
“Android is Linux” is a bit oversimplified.
What the is issue, still simply, the way I understand it:
- Linux kernel contains drivers for the specific hardware used in devices (processors, modem, memory, display, camera, etc.)
- Each Android smartphone has different hardware configuration
- Hardware manufacturers want to guard their secrets, so they sign contracts and NDAs with phone manufacturers
- Phone manufacturers create a unique, dead-end fork of a Linux kernel that contains drivers and is configured specifically for that model. (There are exceptions, but generally)
So yes, Android uses a Linux kernel, but in most cases, a very specific one.
Why not replace it? This requires:
- Access to the bootloader and ability to read/write to internal storage on low level, and manufacturers lock it down.
- Knowing the hardware and the drivers. As mentioned, manufacturers will provide drivers only to their contracts. So someone would need to write a driver.
- Once someone writes a driver, it can be added to mainline Linux, available to all.
- That is why “mainlining” a device is a big deal - that means that the kernel for that device can be built, and going forward, that device will be supported for all future kernel versions.
And writing drivers for hardware when you don’t have access to all of the design files and documentation is a very involved process.
Android uses a Linux kernel, but most people don’t consider it “Linux”.
A “Linux Phone” is a more traditional Linux distribution made to work on a phone, usually with GNU tools, and a GTK or QT based UI.
This makes me think how fucked it is that we really only have 2 choices. Android or ios. And Android isn’t really getting any better. And it shits me it’s owned by Google.
Are you sure it’s not getting better? This morning, my Pixel updated to take away all my corners again. It’s been what, 4 years since they last made everything rounded and bubbly? My wifi bar and cellular bar are now different stacks of noodles. Improvements nobody knew they needed.
iOS just got a fairly major overhaul to its UI too. Liquid Glass, they’re calling it. Screenshots don’t really look great but using it since yesterday, I actually prefer it. Feels a little retro-futuristic. Buttons have clearly defined edges again, everything is now transparent, and it has the same sort of distortion you’d get with those glass blocks that used to be popular in swimming pools and such (at least around here, not sure if that was universal). Probably my favourite look of iOS actually. That might be a super unpopular opinion, I’m not sure. I haven’t kept up on community opinions of iOS in a long time.
Similarly, I fell out of the android/pixel communities when I left reddit. I don’t know what’s popular, either. I’d guess Lemmy generally agrees with me, but we’re not the general population. I just want my piece of informational technology to keep it simple to get information. New functions are cool, power-thirsty UI animations and changes to familiar UI elements every 3 months is not (imo)
Wait what.
Can you show a picture?
Pixel, specifically. My 7 is what just updated. Blur through drawers. At this point, I can’t remember if my app icons were already circles, but now I’m looking at them now again and still hate them. Sliders now have detached bar indicators. Cartoonish status icons. It’s another step into iPhone styling to, I guess, tackle a market demo that thinks the phone market is Samsung vs iphone.
The one on the right, yeah? https://www.droid-life.com/wp-content/uploads/2025/04/Android-16-New-Volume-Sliders-768x614.jpg
Weird!
How is that much different than the last 50 years?
At least the US government was trying to fix it back then.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Breakup_of_the_Bell_System
Now the CEO gets invited to the white house to show off how they exploit your privacy for profit.
- Yes, android is technically Linux
- There are forks (Graphene, e, etc) but none approach the popularity of traditional Android so you’ll never find them on phones sold by major retailers/carriers
- Theres not a huge market (or rather, it’s not a huge moneymaker) to develop an android fork that focuses on things like privacy and security. There’s a reason phones come preloaded with Facebook and Candy Crush.
And sideloading is looking to get more difficult
Why Not just fork it
Astronomically easier said than done.
Worse since they are all starting to lock the bootloaders.
Why not just jailbreak it?
Sometimes it’s doable, but YOU SHOULDN’T HAVE TO!
You can’t.
Not easily anyway. Probably if you could do it at a hardware level, but manufacturers have been making it harder and harder to even get the dang thing open, and every model and revision would require intense research just to prove it out.
Theres online tutorials but they are VERY specific on each phone, sometimes serial numbers are what you have to look up. It sucks and is more likely to brick your phone than anything else.
Yeah. And if nobody’s done your specific model, you’re all the way out of luck.
Technically most things we call “Linux” aren’t even Linux, they’re distributions that use Linux as a base. Android forks their own Linux kernel and then shovels on a whole bunch of non-Linuxy stuff on top of it and then locks it all down so that you can’t make any changes.
So what people mean when they say they want a true Linux phone is that they want an OS on their phone that behaves more like most Linux distributions (where you are in control, and can even install a different kernel if you wanted).
As for the forking question, being downstream of Android means A) undoing everything they did it lock it down and B) constantly having to do that moving forward as they do everything they can to stymie you at every turn.It just uses the kernel It doesn’t use the traditional desktop user tooling
But for what, its useful for sure but I think thats relatively niche. Most people Not on IOS just want the regular old android phone experience…
“Linux” is usually used as a term for the operating system based on the kernel. Look up “pars pro toto”.
Mr Stallman tried to remedy that by telling us all to call it GNU/Linux. He’s not wrong (even the license, the GPL, is GNU) but it still isn’t the whole picture. Also I’m sure some Rust fans will tell you that a revolution is underway replacing venerable GNU tools with new, alround Just Better™ versions. Anyhow, I have given up on calling it GNU/Linux and now use terms like “true Linux OS”.
So, a Linux phone is one that is internally a Linux operating system. The difference (to Android) is worldview-shattering. Just like with your other Linux machines, you are in control and not $CORPO.
Maybe we should start calling it GNU/Linux again, I myself am to blame of starting to call it just Linux in recent years.
It implies that it’s the GNU stuff I care about (just as much as the kernel). But e.g. systemd is not GNU. And let me tell you, it is really cool to have systemd on your phone, write your own services.
I wouldn’t want to call it systemd/Linux either though. Or GPL/Linux.
I’d say on the Hardware side, degoogling is a pain. Android devices are not very ‘open’. I think graphene is the only alternative that’s easy to install and that only works on a couple of devices. For others like linage there are a few more devices but some of the install procedures are shonky and can leave you with unlocked bootloader and stuff like that. Scares off many people I’d think. I think a device that was designed to allow you to install an OS and is not basically locked down is attractive.
Put another way, you can fork android all you like, but what are you going to run it on, and how do you install it? If there was a device that made it easy , it might get popular enough to attract more interesting open source innovations.
On the software side , once you ditch google there’s also way fewer applications. F-droid is ok; but being able to use one of the major distro with an ARM repository would give a decent amount of stuff - albeit not optimised for touchscreen.
I think there’s an options also some technical stuff about how much call and cellular data has to go through your cellular network, and whether bypass or switch off is an option - I think that’s for the real privacy people - I don’t really know about it.
upvoted for use of the word “shonky”. I dig it.
I’ve noticed a glyph in several of your comments, including this one. Are you doing that intentionally, or is it a character that my client just isn’t deciding correctly?
I’m not doing anything intentional, where is it appearing?
Does that work?
It looks cool, and I see it in many of your comments.
Interesting, it’s where I put a simple line break <br>. If I put a line space then it creates a new paragraph block <p></p>.
I guess your viewer doesn’t like <br> within its <P> blocks.
Fascinating! Are you adding the HTML tags manually, or are they being translated from a new line at some point?
Nope. That’s just how this fedia web client is generating it when I do a single carriage return (vs two in a row).
I guess any inconsistencies in interpreting the raw data as a message federates around can cause quirks like this.
Read how GNU/Linux different from just Linux and how the word “Linux” is used in speech.
Android de facto isn’t Linux.
Sorry friend, but if someone is asking a question, telling them to read about it rather than provide the meat of the answer doesn’t seem too helpful.
You’re under no obligation to explain anything to anyone, but if you’re going to take the time to respond why not elaborate?
Removed by mod
I’d just like to interject for a moment. What you’re refering to as Android, is in fact, GNU/Linux, or as I’ve recently taken to calling it, GNU plus Android Linux. Linux is not an operating system unto itself, but rather another free component of a fully functioning GNU system made useful by the GNU corelibs, shell utilities and vital system components comprising a full OS as defined by POSIX.
Many computer users run a modified version of the GNU system every day, without realizing it. Through a peculiar turn of events, the version of GNU which is widely used today is often called Linux, and many of its users are not aware that it is basically the GNU system, developed by the GNU Project.
There really is a Linux, and these people are using it, but it is just a part of the system they use. Linux is the kernel: the program in the system that allocates the machine’s resources to the other programs that you run. The kernel is an essential part of an operating system, but useless by itself; it can only function in the context of a complete operating system. Linux is normally used in combination with the GNU operating system: the whole system is basically GNU with Linux added, or GNU/Linux. All the so-called Linux distributions are really distributions of GNU/Linux!
Thanks, Richard.
