DISCLAIMER – I am not planning on smashing the window on an airplane.
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In flight?
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Masks would fall down
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The crew will start an emergency descent to a breathable altitude
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The crew will call a may day and reroute to the nearest suitable airport
Worth noting that the masks in the cabin aren’t designed to keep you awake. They’re just designed to keep you alive. They’re basically just hydrogen peroxide and a catalyst, which mixes when you pull the mask down. The resulting chemical reaction produces a small amount of oxygen for a short time. This is also why the instructions say to put your own mask on before helping any children; You only have 15-30 seconds of usable consciousness before you pass out, so you need the mask to stay awake long enough to help anyone else. The pilots are the only ones who actually have masks good enough to stay awake, and that’s why they immediately dive to a breathable altitude.
Also, the entire cabin would immediately fog from the sudden pressure and temperature change. We’re talking “can’t even see your fingertips when your arm is outstretched” levels of fog.
And while we’re talking about it, the cabin would suddenly be cold. Like absolutely fucking freezing.
Lastly, your ears will painfully pop, and will likely ring for a while afterwards. The sudden pressure change will feel like you got slapped on the ears.
Concise, interesting. Will pm you a nude.
Can I have one?
You may want to ask more questions first before soliciting that nude.
masks in the cabin aren’t designed to keep you awake. They’re just designed to keep you alive.
In that situation I’m perfectly fine with that. More than perfectly fine, in fact. Sounds like a feature I’d pay extra for (don’t tell United).
Tell me more about this immediate fog thing, what causes it and what doesn’t it clear quickly?
edit: Wait the masks only produce oxygen for 30s or the breathable oxygen at that altitude is only available for ~30s?
it’s usually -40°c outside when you are in cruise altitude. Open your home window when it’s freezing outside (less than 0°c) can give you an idea why you would have fog in the aircraft until its complete decompression.
The mask can produce “oxygen” for about 15 to 20 min max. You have to be below 10000 feets to be “ok” without mask (it will be like being in a montain at high altitude).
Without putting the mask, you loose conciousness in about 30sec.
Note: this scenario is the worse in term of decompression event. Usually this type of failure would happen during the ascent.
If you hold you breathe would you stay conscious longer?
i don’t think its possible (but i’m not an expert on that) due to the sudden differential of pressure you encounter. I assume it’s like being punched.
Best is to react quickly for yourself, then look and help the people around you…
If plane go quickly under 10000 feets, the unconscious people will wake-up (normally)
You would only be awake for 30s after sudden decompression
That’s exactly what I want in a situation like that, the crew to respond like it’s any other Tuesday.
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It depends very much on the height.
If we assume a jet flight at around 30.000 feet:
The cabin pressure goes down immediately, that means, a very strong wind goes out of this open window. Several eardrums burst. (Stupid people panic and cry). Afterwards people cannot breathe normally because of the low pressure… They need these air masks.
Then the pilot descends immediately to something like 5.000 feet - I don’t know exactly - where everybody can breathe normally again.
And then you land at the next airport.
Halfway decent comment so adding more:
The emergency descent altitude is almost always 10,000 feet. This is because most people will be able to breath without the oxygen mask at this altitude. But, do not take off your mask.
They do not descend lower because, succinctly, what if all engine power is lost? If that happens then the pilots want enough altitude to have enough time to try and restart the engines and, failing engine restart, to extend gliding range in effort to maximize choices of where to land.
Qualifications: expired VFR license (not a commercial pilot)
And to add to the conversation(if there’s anything incorrect please let me know) from videos I’ve seen by MentourPilot, Captain Joe and online sources
The process will most likely look like the following (assuming an emergency descent is needed because the cabin can’t be pressurized like with the window vs some smaller hole air leak):
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They will put on their own o2 masks (it’s critical to do this as you can lose consciousness in under a minute)
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They will set the transponder to a code that denotes the emergency to both ATC and nearby traffic
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They will radio the distress both for ATC but also nearby planes to give them a heads up that they’ll be rapidly descending. If it’s in a high traffic area they may wait for approval to begin descent (and you can be sure ATC is going to be moving planes out of the way.). If it’s taking too long they will begin descending anyway.
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They’ll announce to the cabin that they’re doing an emergency descent
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They will start a rapid descent to 10,000 ft (if terrain allows it, otherwise down to whatever they can safely get to). This is because the emergency o2 is limited to about 15 minutes.
Some interesting things I learned about this.
They will often use autopilot for the descent and level flight. This is because of limited visibility and a risk of possible issues caused by low o2.
They turn on all lights to make sure they’re as visible as possible to other traffic.
This descent will be really unpleasant. Not a gentle descent but the safest one (especially if they’re unsure if there’s any structural issues) they can do. Which will be quite a bit steeper than anybody is used to.
So passengers on the plane will experience this as:
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Loud rushing noise. Possible moisture filling the cabin now that you have outside cold air mixing with warm air and surfaces inside
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Masks dropping and seatbelt signs
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Shortly after the Captain saying “Emergency descent” 3 or so times
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Flight screw scrambling to seats and putting on masks
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The sound of the wings adjusting for speed brakes, shuddering from the flight profile change,
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The sounds of the engines being revved up to the planes maximum speed as the nose of the plane tipping down. It will feel like it’s faster than it really is with the shift in gravity followed by being pressed back due to the increase in speed during descent.
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The plane shifting as they turn away from the main traffic area as they descend (unless told otherwise by ATC, etc)
Not a fun experience I’m sure
Some sources to check out
Emergency descend!! Cockpit video
Explosive decompression at Simulador TCP. EAS Barcelona pilot school
Expired VFR from above:
Think about “aviate, navigate, communicate” and add to your pilot procedure. For example, the first priority is that the pilot in command establish straight and level flight.
Also, relate that descent to things people know, such as the typical max climb and descent angles passengers experience and the maximum grade found on US interstates.
Your work is pretty good. I encourage you to pick up the textbooks used in flight school. There’s lots of ways to be a pilot without actually obtaining a VFR license, such as a recreational license or MS Flight Simulator. You can even get a taste with a type of skydive called an “assisted free fall”.
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Stupid people panic and cry
I’m not sure I’d call it STUPID to panic when something extremely scary happens to you…
I mean, I wouldn’t exactly call it smart either. Panic is pretty useless in situations where flight is not an option (in the flight or fight sense … but it makes for a good pun too).
I wouldn’t call it smart either but to look down on someone who freaks out when an airplane window blows out seems a bit much lol
Would you agree that it is wise not to panic?
Yes but there’s plenty of better-suited middle ground between wise and stupid
No. Wrong.
It is clear and simple in that order of events that we are describing here: the ones who panic and the ones who don’t. And so I describe them with clear and simple words. That other guy who always looks for some grey areas in between and then makes lots of buts and long winding arguments, he is just not there. No time for him, no place for him.
He maybe comes afterwards, when all is over and I don’t care anymore, and that’s what I do with you now.
Oh ok you’re right it is binary. I now understand that if you are stupid if you aren’t 100% calm during a very stressful situation. Thank you for the explanation.
Standard procedure is max FL100 or 10 000 ft.
But if you are flying over mountains (FL180 for the Alps highest safe flight level) you are fucked.
Well no, there are oxygen masks and the pilots will immediately put them on and then dive toward a safer altitude at a controlled but fast rate of descent (more eardrums bursts) as well as clearing the high terrain area ASAP.
Airbus Procedure is basically “Pull everything on the MCP !”:
- masks on for both pilots,
- checks interphone com with your Captain/FO.
- On the MCP, autopilot set altitude to max FL100 or below (above if mountains), pull for open descent,
- pull for HDG and go off track (outside the airway to avoid collisions).
- Pull for max Speed or appropriate (not in managed mode anymore, this will change your rate of descent).
- Speedbrakes max.
- Transponder 7700
- Then you can call Mayday on radio.
- You also check that the masks had been automatically lowered in the cabin at that point.
And A320 should descent at around 7000ft per minute. At that rate you start to feel that the ground is getting perpendicular to you on the window. Could be more or less, it’s the pilot choice and how much he is willing to stress an airframe that just had an explosive decompression.
Rapid decompressions are very rare events tho. Except maybe on 737 max.
DISCLAIMER – I am not planning on smashing the window on an airplane.
That’s what someone who plans on smashing the window on a plane would say.
That’s what someone who plans on smashing the window on a plane would say.
I disagree, respectfully.
If I were planning on smashing the window on a plane, then I would say:
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(drums rolling)
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Nothing at all.
Stupid sexy Flanders.
Nothing at all.
A drum roll can’t break an airplane window
Nah they wouldn’t post at all
They probably wouldn’t take off.
Absolutely won’t be taking off on that plane; it’s not going to be a 30-minute Safelite AeroGlass™️ appointment. And airlines don’t keep planes sitting around not making money so they won’t have a spare aircraft available to fly that route so all the passengers will likely get hotel and meal vouchers and changed tickets for the next day.
hotel and meal vouchers
In the US? Not in the past decade. I usually get a link to an app that’s like shitty Expedia for local hotels. You can race to compete for rooms with other stranded passengers while your partner tries to re-book the flight for the next day. “I’m sorry - all flights are full until next Tuesday. We can put you on standby, but there’s a list of people ahead of you.”
This probably goes hand in hand with the trend of providing sleepable bench seating in airports. For awhile they were doing the anti-homeless park bench design. You’ll have to fight your fellow passengers for space, but it’s better than the floor at DIA or ORD.
My whole family got a hotel when our delayed plane made us miss a connection and that was five years back.
I don’t fly much and sleepable benches helps me feel like that’s the right thing to not do.
Worth pointing out that it is highly unlikely for an airplane window to either smash or pop out — they’re multi-layered Lexan reinforced panes mounted from the inside. And they’ve all got a hole on the inside pane so that a controlled decompression with a loud whistling would happen long before the entire pane would give way. This would likely provide time for the masks to drop and the pilot to adjust altitude long before any explosive decompression (if that even occurred).
Likewise, doors are designed not to open at altitude.
So the only weak spots these days are door plugs and the bathrooms.
Pedant, but the pressure difference between 1 atmosphere and zero isn’t all that great, so explosive decompression wouldn’t happen even in the worst case scenario. Rapid yes, explosive no.
To be explosive you need something like the Byford Dolphin diving bell incident, which was 9 atmospheres to 1 in a fraction of a second.
True, unless it’s a Boeing.
out of personal curiosity, why is the bathroom concidered a weak point? I understand the door plug but I figured the bathroom is a locked down area
I’m assuming your question pertains to a window failure while still on the airport grounds prior to takeoff. If instead you meant a window failure while at cruise, I would suggest this Mentour Pilot video about Southwest Flight 1380 where an engine defect threw shrapnel at one of the cabin windows, smashing it open with disastrous effects.
Supposing the window failed prior to opening the jet bridge to allow passengers to board, it probably would have been noticed by the flight crew – ie the pilots, cabin staff – while doing their preflight preparations and checks, or by the ground crew, while loading baggage or food/supplies. Once notified, the boarding process would be delayed as the pilots assess whether the flight can continue – definitely not – and then the captain would use their authority to reject the aircraft for that flight, calling in the maintenance team and the airline so they can take the next steps. Practically speaking, this flight will be either heavily delayed or outright cancelled.
If instead the window failed after closing the doors and the aircraft has started taxiing to the runway, then there are some complications. With everyone seated for taxiing, passengers are not supposed to start walking around to notify the cabin crew. But the cabin crew may already be walking the aisles to check for stowed trays, seatbelts for takeoff, baggage obstructions, etc. So if they see a smashed window, that’s an obvious sign that the cabin is not secured for takeoff. At the end of the cabin checks, the cabin crew would normally telephone the pilots to convey a secure cabin. Here, they would explain the situation and the pilots would contact ground control to return back to the terminal.
But supposing the window broke after the cabin was declared secure, and the aircraft is about to line up onto the runway. In this case, everyone including the cabin crew are sat down, so a passenger who sees the window can’t really get the cabin crew’s attention by pressing the overhead button. Barring some sort of additional malfunction that the pilots could notice – like a major engine malfunction – this aircraft might actually take off.
When taxiing, the pilots have a number of things to do, and so the “sterile cockpit” rule means that no non-operational chitchat is allowed, to allow them to focus. Mentour Pilot has other videos on what happens when the rule is violated. Likewise, the cabin crew are trained to not disturb the pilots unless something absolutely flight endangering is happening, at least for the first few thousand feet of takeoff climb.
The theory is as follows: if an aircraft is on the ground and stationary, it is safe. If the aircraft is at cruising altitude and cruising speed, it is safe. But if it’s at low altitude (<1000 ft; 330 m), then it’s very easy for the flight to go sour. Hence, once an aircraft has reached a certain point in taxiing, it will basically want to take off. And we still have the problem that the pilots don’t even know the window broke.
So the aircraft rolls down the runway and takes off. Crisis? Not really. The plane will climb quickly up to some 3000-5000 ft, at which point the plane is configured for a steady climb to cruise. This is when the pressurization system would engage, since cabins need to keep the pressure to a breathable level. Although the system may also have noticed that the cabin pressure stayed the same as the outside air pressure for the entire climb. That’s a clear sign of a cabin air leak, and the system would indicate to the pilots of a pressurization failure.
This is the first indicator for the pilots, although at this stage in the flight, the cabin crew may also phone the pilots since they start walking around earlier than 10,000 ft altitude. A pressurization failure or broken window means the pilots must halt their climb and remain below 10,000 ft, which is the upper limit for human breathing without supplemental oxygen. The pilots would radio to ATC and request a return to the airport, or another nearby airport if need be. A pan-pan or mayday could be declared, depending on the captain’s assessment of the situation, or to obtain priority over any other aircraft wanting to land.
The last scenario before the Flight 1380 scenario is if the window broke just as the aircraft was passing 10,000 ft altitude, so there was no earlier indication of a cabin leak. In this case, there will indeed be a cabin depressurization, although it won’t be as severe as at cruise altitude. Some aircraft will automatically drop the oxygen masks, and the pilots will don their own masks, now cognizant that a full-blown emergency is underway. This is handled the same way: bring the aircraft down to a breathable altitude and call ATC. The oxygen masks are good for some 20 minutes, which is well more than enough time to return to a lower altitude and make a plan.
TL;DR: the entirety of Mentour Pilot’s YouTube back catalog truly sheds light on how the aviation industry keeps people safe. I highly recommend.
safe. But if it’s at low altitude (<1000 ft; 330 m), then it’s very easy for the flight to go sour.
When I talk about paragliding, normal people are weirded out when I tell that I am safer 1000m agl than 30m AGL. But we call the 5-50m aglthe death zone. If shit hits the fan, I have no time to react nor to pull the reserve. Lower, helmet and airbag would limit the damage,higher I can try something, but at low height you don’t have much time to react and need to be 100% focused
I’m only a passive yet very interested observer of aviation but am also a fairly avid cyclist. I think the equivalent analog for bikes is that it’s much easier to track a straight line when doing 50 kph than at 5 kph. Just like airspeed is needed for rudder surfaces to work, cyclists need speed to maintain horizontal balance and manoruverability.
Dude… I’ve gone pretty fast down some hills. It feels way safer to be going real slow and fall over than going 50 mph downhill on a road bike in a nice straight line.
Dude… I’ve gone pretty fast down some hills. It feels way safer to be going real slow and fall over than going 50 mph downhill on a road bike in a nice straight line.
FWIW, 50kph is 31mph, not 50mph.
I frequently bike around 28mph (45kph), cause that’s where my eBike maxes out its pedal assist. It’s not so bad, assuming your gearing is set up so that you aren’t pedaling so hard it destabilizes the bike (I had to swap in a larger chainring to safely maintain those speeds).
But also the comparison isn’t whether it’s safer, it’s whether it’s more stable. A bike going fast is more stable than a bike going slow because the motion of the bike keeps itself upright. It’s not a perfect analogy for gliding, but it’s similar enough to help understand. What may seem to someone inexperienced to be the less-ideal condition is actually more ideal.
31 mph is not too bad, but at higher speeds you start facing safety risks and instabilities of different kinds besides just falling over. Going downhill very fast on a road bike is not a super stable configuration. You can slip on turns, lose control on bumps, hit something you didn’t have reaction time for, etc.
I think planes have this too where they’re safer at higher altitudes, except not too high beyond what they’re rated for and have other instabilities from that
if they see a smashed window, that’s an obvious sign that the cabin is not secured for takeoff
lmao!
That one right there officer
At what point in time? If the aircraft is still on the ground, it wouldn’t take off in that condition, i.e. you would be ordered to leave it again and need to take a different one. The explanation by @NeoNachtwaechter@lemmy.world is, I think, correct for what would happen if that happened during the flight.
At what point in time? If the aircraft is still on the ground
As I said, assuming a height of 30.000
I admit that I don’t know if there’s any airports where the ground is at that height… ;-)
I was replying to OP, not you. OP didn’t specify this.
Well – is it technically a flight if the airplane is still on ground?
Depends on why it is on the ground and if flight plans have been submitted etc
There’s a YouTube video on one time this happened and a woman was sucked out of the window partially and ended up passing away as a result. She was seated directly beside that window when this happened and others were trying to pull her in. The plane took an emergency action to land as soon as possible. She didn’t completely exit the window, but was partially out of the window.
Sorry I didn’t give you a story with a nicer ending, but just know that this is rare and doesn’t happen often. The odds of this happening are almost similar to winning the lottery. People are scared of flying, in general, but you’re generally safer in the air than in a car, statistically speaking for something to happen.
you’re generally safer in the air than in a car, statistically speaking
Yes, very much so. The airplane is the second safest means of transportation.
What’s the safest?
I thought you would never ask… :-)
The escalator.
But don’t they escalate the situation?
Similar happened to a pilot some years ago when the windscreen ejected itself. (wrong bolts if I remember the air crash investigation episode.) He survived though. Was held by co pilot.
That story is REMARKABLE. I’ve seen the Air Disasters version and the Mentour Pilot version and both are told very well.
Yep, something like one plane per day would have to go down to equal US auto deaths.
It would suck stuff out, the oxygen masks would drop, they’d land the plane
By the way:
Does anybody know if it is actually oxygen that comes out of these masks?
I think it could also be normal clean air at a suitable pressure.
It’s pure oxygen https://skybrary.aero/articles/aircraft-oxygen-systems
Thanks!
I think its a chemical generator that activates then you pull on it and generates oxygen for up to 10 minutes, but that’s enough time for the pilots to get the plane down to 10,000 feet or below, which has breathable air.
It absolutely is a chemical generator. Because it’s actually pure oxygen, and carrying that onboard a plane in any other form (oxygen bottles etc) at an amount that would keep 300 or so people alive would make the plane even more of an explosion hazard than it already is.
Mr Goldfinger would fly arse first from his seat to plug the hole.
No Mr. Bond, I expect you to FLY.
Always have your belt on.
