Examples of the singular “they” being used to describe someone features as early as 1386 in Geoffrey Chaucer’s The Canterbury Tales and also in famous literary works like Shakespeare’s Hamlet in 1599.
“They” and “them” were still being used by literary authors to describe people in the 17th Century too - including by Jane Austin in her 1813 novel Pride and Prejudice.
Did you notice that you have no problem using the gender-neutral pronoun “you” in this comment?
It’s almost like this isn’t something you actually care about, but just see as something to justify irrational hatred of people. That’s kinda weird, lady.
Trans and nonbinary people have existed for as long as humanity has. Your perception of this “stupidity” as new is the result of people finally overcoming hundreds of years of religious programming; bigotry that has been passed down for generations as superstitious fear anyone presenting in an unfamiliar way, and people are now more willing to express themselves as they actually feel, rather than as they feel they must in order to protect themselves.
Here’s a short piece of a lecture by a Stanford professor explaining how wrong you are. https://youtu.be/8QScpDGqwsQ
I don’t know what your gender is a a comment or, so I’m very happy to refer to you in a gender neutral way, as should be.
As an ex journalist I’ve been using a gender neutral ‘they’ to refer to hypothetical people eg: ‘the applicant should attach their passport photo’ since the 1980s. It better than the ugly ‘his/her’.
Keep in mind that yes, some non-binary people or trans folk do go to see a therapist - and the result is they come out being happy as non-binary or trans.
Really, this isn’t the most important thing in the world. It’s just courteous to refer to people im the way that they like to be referred. Courtesy is good, yes?
Because they’re totally different uses of gender-neutral language
OK, let’s go with that. Can you please help me understand what problem is created for you by someone being non-binary and wishing to be referred to as they?
I understand that problem #1 is you are being asked to be respectful to someone you disagree with, but if we can get past that…?
(You are of course, welcome to think whatever you want. I’d be in big trouble every time I was behind someone with a Trump sticker on their car if this wasn’t the case.)
Bro this and that has literally nothing to do with each other. “They” has been used for when you don’t know the person’s gender since the 15th century.
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https://www.bbc.com/news/newsbeat-49754930
But really, what would Chaucer, Shakespeare and Jane Austen know about the English language?
Aren’t those cases referring to individuals you don’t know the gender of? Like “I saw a silhouette moving, they were going somewhere”
Sounds like the gender was known.
First one is plural, second one is refering to what I said in my previous comment
No, both are the use of the singular ‘they’ with gender. Read them more closely.
First one talks about mothers in general, second one refers to being a friend of someone
Yes, which is literally why many nonbinary people prefer “they” for their third person pronouns.
It’s still not used for the same grammatical reasons
Did you notice that you have no problem using the gender-neutral pronoun “you” in this comment?
It’s almost like this isn’t something you actually care about, but just see as something to justify irrational hatred of people. That’s kinda weird, lady.
I think the problem is those who have issues with the words ‘he and she.’
Trans and nonbinary people have existed for as long as humanity has. Your perception of this “stupidity” as new is the result of people finally overcoming hundreds of years of religious programming; bigotry that has been passed down for generations as superstitious fear anyone presenting in an unfamiliar way, and people are now more willing to express themselves as they actually feel, rather than as they feel they must in order to protect themselves.
Here’s a short piece of a lecture by a Stanford professor explaining how wrong you are. https://youtu.be/8QScpDGqwsQ
Sure bro.
Ah, willful ignorance. Core tenet of conservative viewpoints in all their forms.
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Lol, what?
No, priests taking up female roles aren’t trans or non-binary
Why waste your time trying to define someone else’s identity. Let people be themselves; it’s none of your business anyway.
clueless
Not really.
The real issue seems to be those who have problems with terms such as ‘pregnant woman.’
The real issue is people like you
Why?
I don’t know what your gender is a a comment or, so I’m very happy to refer to you in a gender neutral way, as should be.
As an ex journalist I’ve been using a gender neutral ‘they’ to refer to hypothetical people eg: ‘the applicant should attach their passport photo’ since the 1980s. It better than the ugly ‘his/her’.
Keep in mind that yes, some non-binary people or trans folk do go to see a therapist - and the result is they come out being happy as non-binary or trans.
Really, this isn’t the most important thing in the world. It’s just courteous to refer to people im the way that they like to be referred. Courtesy is good, yes?
Well, that’s because you don’t know or don’t care about the gender of the applicant, not because that applicant is non-binary
And that changes anything about this because…?
Because they’re totally different uses of gender-neutral language
OK, let’s go with that. Can you please help me understand what problem is created for you by someone being non-binary and wishing to be referred to as they?
I understand that problem #1 is you are being asked to be respectful to someone you disagree with, but if we can get past that…?
I’d use “they/them” pronouns if I’m asked to out of respect to another human being, but that won’t make me stop thinking that usage is bs
So, no actual problem.
(You are of course, welcome to think whatever you want. I’d be in big trouble every time I was behind someone with a Trump sticker on their car if this wasn’t the case.)
So, no problem unless you talk about it?
I don’t actually care about the gender of the applicant, except in very special cases.
Bro this and that has literally nothing to do with each other. “They” has been used for when you don’t know the person’s gender since the 15th century.
How long has he and she been used when you do know the person’s gender?
Oh so you just want something to be angry about. Yeah go do that somewhere else.
Uhh, what?
Looks like the people who have problems with ‘he and she’ are the ones who want something to be angry about.
Not one problem in your life is the result of a person you know (or even a person you don’t know) wanting to be referred to as ‘they.’
Not one.
Edit: LOL of course it was JasSmith@kbin.social - so I guess you do have some problem that someone else’s pronouns have caused for you?
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Blocking someone won’t change anything, it’s just hiding your head under the sand and pretending it’s not real
I will get blocked for this, but had to say that the guy will keep thinking the way he does. In fact, he will probably become more radical
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Definitely not my problem, but yours
I’ve found America is pretty much the only nation where ideas like these have gotten hold.
The rest of the word recognizes it for what it is and just decides to steer clear.
Wdym “these” ideas? America is probably the most “gender-neutral” obsessed country in the entire globe
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Yes, that’s what I mean.
Other nations recognize the differences between men and women without debate.
Care to name a few of those nations that “recognize the differences between men and women without debate” ?
Mexico and Japan are the first nations that come to mind that white people would respect.
Other than that, pretty much every non-white nation.
Wow you’re actually just stupid. Don’t forget it. I think you already know.
Is this how you always react when faced with information you don’t like?