ABC is greatly, greatly softening the severity of what the Prosecution is alleged to have done.
It is much, much worse than just ‘Prosecution accidentally violated his HIPAA rights’.
“The district attorney falsely made up a court date — May 23, 2025 — and drafted a fraudulent subpoena that if Aetna did not provide documents on that date, it would be in contempt of court,” Mangione claims in a New York Supreme document, filed Thursday.
(In legalese, ‘Mangione claims’ means that his lawyers claim this in an exhaustive report/complaint to the judge of this case.)
The Prosecution appears to have served Aetna with a literally fake, fradulent subpoena.
That subpoena included a court date which was never actually scheduled in the court system.
…
You cannot do this.
Any request for a subpoena like this has to go through and be approved by the judge.
Circumventing the judge and essentially falsely acting on a fraudulent representation of their authority is actually potentially a crime, bare minimum, something a lawyer can be disbarred for.
And this is the District Attorney of New York leading the legal team against Mangione, whom Mangione’s Defense Counsel has now formally accused of doing this.
Mangione’s counsel has requested to the Judge that, bare minimum, whoever on the Prosecution team is actually responsible for this be removed from the rest of the proceedings, ideally, have the entire trial be dismissed as a mistrial.
…
Here is the entire complaint to the Judge from Mangione’s Defense Counsel:
https://www.courthousenews.com/wp-content/uploads/2025/07/mangione-hippa-defense-filing.pdf
…
This could actually blow up at least this New York State level case against Mangione.
…
There are currently two simultaneous cases going on, one at the New York State level, one at the Federal level, all of this is irt the NY case.
Holy shit, this should be huge news being seen everywhere! Instead, the bought media will distract us with more circus sideshows.
I was first alerted to it by Status Coup news on youtube… but uh, most lemmy news comms only allow, you know, written articles.
Hey maybe courthousenews counts as a legit, written source?
Post it everywhere if you want to, not like I own the idea of linking to them, rofl!
The news will literally never talk about any of this. We don’t have freedom of the press in glorious republik of amerika
Meh, I saw this on groundnews yesterday. Plenty of sources.
Are they trying to get a mistrial in order to avoid the fallout of a potential “not guilty” verdict as well as the potential fallout of a “guilty” verdict?
They who
I mean, I guess that isn’t impossible, but I really have no idea.
My guess would be that they are just assuming they can get away with whatever bullshit they do, because fuck Luigi, hail corporate?
I do not know.
They are really putting their best effort for minimizing this whole ordeal so tbh I wouldn’t be surprised if this was the case.
Holy fuck. That’s insane if true.
I don’t work as an attorney or anything, but I have some exposure to the inner workings at times. Screw ups are absurdly common. In this case, after the prosecution deleted the documents, the defense sent them a copy from thier side. Just absurd levels of incompetence all the time. So don’t rule that out.
Next… in general, for some absolutely absurd reason, it usually isn’t illegal for the government to lie. Like on the subpoena. The police are allowed to lie to you during interrogation. ICE has routinely (and not just recently) signed thier own subpoenas and presented them as legal, even though without a judge’s signature they aren’t legally binding. Odds are that what they did is standard practice, no matter how vile it is. And the signer probably wasn’t even a lawyer, just some legal aid.
What’s different in this case, is they have a witness saying the prosecution verbally said that what they were doing was wrong, and did it anyway. Not sure if that will matter if it turns out to be standard practice.
In short, the legal system is a farce. TV would have you believe technicalities matter. But they only matter if they support what the judge wants to do anyway.
for some absolutely absurd reason, it usually isn’t illegal for the government to lie. Like on the subpoena.
Wait, seriously? They can outright lie, not like “our investigation leads us to believe that you X and are charged with Y” like an arraignment?
No they can’t file a fraudulent paperwork with third parties demanding info they have no right to, they can’t pretend to charge you with fake charges, they can’t file fraudulent paperwork of any sort. They can verbally lie to you when they are interrogating you in hopes of getting you to confess.
I mean… these examples I’m seeing are … while real, and extremely troubling…
These are all relating to cops.
Lawyers are not cops.
They do not play by the same legal rules, so to speak, and uh… this isn’t a case where the complainant or defendant… is a cop.
So … I mean, I am not a lawyer, but I don’t think this … works in the way you seem to think it does?
Like uh, police can do a bunch of shady shit, they can lie to you, they can bullshit their way into searching you or deciding some extreme circumstance allows them to do some bullshit…
But a subpoena is a not a thing cops do. They do not issue or execute subpoenas.
They execute warrants.
Warrants are not subpoenas.
Well, I envy your hopefulness.
https://www.boston.com/news/national-news/2025/07/15/immigration-agents-demand-tenant-information-from-landlords-stirring-questions-and-confusion/ ICE officers (cops essentially) signed the subpoenas. It’s not technically a lie. I can write and sign something I call a subpoena too. So all the prosecution had to do was have someone other than the lawyers sign it, just to help ensure they can’t be disbarred for it. While not a lie, I would call it an abuse of power and position for sure. So no, the “fake” subpoena just isn’t the smoking gun you think it is. The only real question is what did they say that the witness heard. None of the news stories I read were very specific about that. And I think the witness worked for the insurance company, which is getting sued for handing over the information. So the witness likely will be pressured not to talk as it could incriminate them and thier employer. And I bet they will be represented by lawyers from the company, as they likely couldn’t afford as good of a legal team.I mean, yes, I agree with you that the entire state of essentially the entire legal system is up in the air, dubious at this point given recent Supreme Court rulings and Executive Orders…
But if we are to pretend/assume that… the law actually exists as is written, that precedent and the way that proceedings generally play out over the history of US law is not all now completely arbitrary…
Then the Prosecution has to actually file their subpoena to, in this case, Aetna, with the actual Judge/Clerk in the case, so that the Judge, the Court, and the Defense Counsel actually know what is going on with the case.
To subvert this process is to subvert the right of a defendant to a fair trial.
Your example regarding ICE essentially self-authorizing themself is widely, widely derided by all manner of lawyers and legal figures across the country as being a dubious violation of this kind, which functionally means they are violating the law every single time they do that.
Yes, I get that the on the ground reality and the legal framework are not at all the same thing in this era of modern facism, but that is because the facists just brazenly and repeatedly violate the law in their own supposed execution of the law.
If you can find me an example of a prosecuting counsel flagrantly fabricating the notion that they have filed a subpoena with the judge/clerk of the court, and this being allowed and the case proceeding without consequence for this behavior, I will be more inclined to believe that this will also be allowed in this Luigi case, but I will remain convinced that such would still represent an egregious miscarriage of justice in the sense of destroying the defendant’s right to a fair trial.
Oh man did I go down a rabbit hole. Apparently most subpoenas for information are in fact signed by the attorneys. Only if the opposing side or the reciever wish to challenge it does the judge get involved. This is where the court date comes in. It is supposed to be on the subpoena to show there is a real case or something. I assume because a third party could verify the signer is part of that case.
I don’t have a great source for this because I mostly found it as an aswer to a question on legal forumns. Short of some very dense legal procedure docs I doubt there would be a better source.
So it doesn’t seem like him signing it is abnormal. News stories do mention that the court date didn’t exist. I imagine that is probably common as well if the date hasn’t been set. But maybe not.
It seems the biggest procedural issue was that the documents were supposed to be requested to go to the court first, but they requested them to be sent to the prosecution, then forwarded them to the court. I can’t see the case being tossed for that.
The defense is complaining that the prosecution should have realized the mistake by the size of documentation they received. I mean maybe, but again, that doesn’t seem like grounds for disarmament or dismissal. And they did report the mistake to the court and the defense. It took 12 days, but they claim that is when they realized it. And it would be hard to prove otherwise I think.
I can’t find any more reference to a witness to anything, so maybe that wasn’t accurate.
But a subpoena is a not a thing cops do. They do not issue or execute subpoenas.
Eh, sort of. In an investigation, the cops (usually a detective/investigator since this doesn’t involve street-level stuff) are using something called a grand jury subpoena. It’s not the same thing as a subpoena issued by a court (which, by the way, are often executed by cops… usually something like a constable or marshal’s office that works directly with the court). The cop types up the subpoena, which is usually incredibly basic and just says who the subpoena is for, what they want, and what the charge is or may be, and then brings it to the district attorney. The district attorney signs off on it, and afterwards the cop sends it off to the company (and it’s 99.999% of the time a company, because the legalities about your dealings with a business make it much easier to obtain the information than other things in your life, meaning it ‘bypasses’ the legal rulings about searches). No judge involvement is necessary for these types of subpoenas.
Working from my memory, I can also sort of recall that the ‘date’ listed on those subpoenas isn’t really tied to a specific court date either. The stock forms I remember the cops using just said that they gave the company a time limit of ‘X.’ I’d have to see the specific paperwork that was filed in order to say whether the prosecution truly overstepped themselves into illegal/unethical behavior.
There were no cops that issued or used a grand jury subpoena in this specific instance.
Luigi’s Defense Counsel is asserting that the Prosecution Counsel issued a fradulent subpoena by way of sending Aetna a letter.
Yes, technically an officer of the court executes a subpoena directly issued by the judge in the course of … dealing with some kind of misconduct pertaining to the actual proceeding of a case, thats true, that category exists and happens…
But I was responding to a specific comment that specifically cited a stack overflow link, which included many examples of… not that category.
Though the Prosecution acts as an officer of the court, the Prosecution are asserted by Defense to have simply made up that Judge/Clerk signed off on a subpoena to Aetna… and then the Prosecution, again, not being an officer of the court, fraudulently ‘executed’ that subpoena.
By my reading of New York criminal law, yes, a District Attorney may issue, as an officer of the court, a subpoena pertaining to an ongoing case… but they must also follow all the procedural rules as described in greater detail by New York civil law…
And in New York civil law, it is clearly explained that the Prosecution would have had to actually file that subpoena with the judge/clerk.
They did not do this, because if they had, the court date cited in the Prosecution’s subpoena to Aetna… would have actually existed in the court’s records.
It does not.
It’s also kind of different (in a legal not moral sense) to have police lie to an individual vs a lawyer lie to a company to steal medical record and violate hippa
Depends on the motivation. In both of these cases it allows the gov to put people in jail easier. So while different, they are probably the same from the probability perspective.
And to what end? What does his health insurance have that is evidence of the murder? Did he make a stop at the hospital right after or something, and make a claim to Aetna?
Exactly.
In the letter, Luigi’s defense also notes that fucking none of that would be relevant to the case anyway.
Place your bets about how AI was involved now!
Let’s not forget that Mangione looks nothing like the guy in the original mugshot.
Why would Ben Shapiro do this?
There’s a nonzero chance the CEO was a client of Epstein and the same goes for members in the board.
Those eyebrows… I’d recognize them anywhere
That smile, Those caterpillars,thatthose damnedsmilecaterpillars…
Fuck me! Ben Shapiro is guilty!
However, prosecutors said they requested limited information from Aetna and Aetna sent them additional materials in error. Prosecutors said they deleted the materials as soon as they became aware of them and brought it to the attention of both the defense and the court.
The error was compounded by defense counsel resending to prosecutors the very same items prosecutors had already deleted, a source familiar with the subpoena said.
When prosecutors can’t take any responsibility for their own stupidity, implicating others is always their go-to.
This is where i see additional problems. Govt or no, Aetna should have been way more diligent in addressing any requests for info, and in providing more than what was explicitly requested they are also committing a HIPAA violation. Any counsel for Aetna should have been well aware of the risk of sending health records out and been very, very specific on what was to be sent and not to avoid a compliance issue.
If i was on Mangione’s legal team I’d be preparing a civil case and HIPAA violation claim against Aetna in addition to seeking removal of the prosecutors involved. (I’m not a lawyer but worked in health insurance for several years managing patient data.)
Hey. With this level of incompetence he could walk free.
Please god
Mangione’s lawyers are going to grind the DA office into burger at trial. Fucking morons.
In that case all we have to hope for is a fair trial.
And that the judge isn’t compromised at some point, either by ideology, financial obligation or fear.
How is this not an instant mistrial?
Because they’ve never even tried to bother to pretend this is going to be a fair trial.
Which tells me that they have no evidence whatsoever and he is innocent.
There is no reason to believe he’s innocent. I hate rich people that kill people with their disgusting and shitty decisions too but I don’t think he is literally innocent of putting holes in the CEO’s body.
I feel like there is hokey in how they caught him. Its still odd that he was “reported by a mcdonalds worker” that doesn’t seem to exist.
Where are you getting the idea that the person doesn’t seem to exist?
Media crews can easily isolate both the mcdonalds in question and anyone working there. 911 calls are usually recorded. None of that info hit the public afaik.
Why would it when it would surely lead to harassment which would interfere with a witness
Fortunately this is not how criminal courts work. Or at least not how they’re supposed to. You don’t have to prove your innocence, they have to prove that you are guilty.
If you think he put holes in that CEO, prove it.
You are owed a day in court and all due process before the government punishes you.
You aren’t owed an unlimed presumption of innocence by the general public who can and do read and come to reasonable conclusions in their own time.
Everyone knew that the Menendez brothers did it before the trial and everyone knew OJ did it after the trial even before he wrote a book about how he did it entitled “if I did it”
It’s weird that you can’t distinguish between what you are owed morally in the court of public opinion and what you are owed legally in criminal court.
I’d like to wait and see what happens at the trial before declaring him innocent or guilty. Just like any conspiracy theory in the past there are plenty of reasons to believe he is innocent. It does seem that he is probably the person but what I’ve seen and read hasn’t convinced me beyond a shadow.
The liars in charge of our government keep saying this is the guy, and we should kill him. I find that super suss.
It’s not weird that I’m waiting for more info before forming an opinion.
It is much more weird that you’re taking the word of police at face value. If you want to kill him so badly, prove it.
He was photographed both at and near the scene and found with the gun. His innocent plea is pro forma because it is their job to defend him and there is always hope of creating reasonable doubt in the mind of the jury even when its not at all reasonable. There is no reason for us to be stupid about it. There are not in fact “plenty of reasons” there are no good reasons at all. Again we are bound by law to give him every benefit of the doubt AT TRIAL. We can entirely reasonably conclude amongst ourselves that he is guilty as sin and still let the trial play out properly.
The liars in charge of our government keep saying this is the guy, and we should kill him. I find that super suss.
It’s not suss at all. He killed an important person who made their living screwing us. If people copy him a lot of very important very rich, and very harmful people who count themselves the modern day nobility are in danger. They collectively own the fucking nation. It’s not weird to see societies moral immune system inflamed at all. If a liar tells you it’s raining the fact that they are dishonest doesn’t mean its dry out.
He’s actually innocent. But they need a scapegoat to make the rich class feel safe.
…34 count felon awaiting sentencing is president, alleged shooter in jail…justice?..
There’s many parts of the dictionary that could be replaced with a pic of him. But I think the US justice system is ironically solidfying “martyr” as the top pick.
At this rate, they’re striving for Joan of Arc levels of history.
I hope he knows everyone is truly grateful of the impact he has made and is continuing to make.
"The District Attorney has subpoenaed Mr Mangione’s health insurer
Would that be UnitedHealthCare by any chance?
Aetna
Well, whichever it is, I don’t expect them to have Luigi’s best interest at heart. Not that they ever have anybody’s best interest at heart beside their shareholders’ anyway…
Agreed
I’m no lawyer. Here’s a question. Would the federal case a jury trial?
I’m trying to figure out if there’s an advantage to futzing the state case. Corporate America wants this man’s blood.
I am not United Statesian and it feels like they change the rules every time I blink, but I think a trial with a death sentence as a possible outcome does require a jury. And if I am wrong, some vulgar good samaritan of the Internet will swoop in to politely call me a pig fucker.
Am unitedstatesian (one word, uncapitalized), not legaeseian.
Constitution does state though, defendants have the right to a trial by a jury of their peers. Sixth Amendment
https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/jury_of_one's_peers
Criminal trial for sure falls in this category. Regardless of if death penalty is on the table.
boohoohoo
Boohoohoo We have rights 😭 Boohoohoo
Yeah, fuck due process. Enemies of the establishment don’t deserve to be treated fairly.
Glad to see I am not alone on this. /smirk
Of course you aren’t. There are plenty of maladjusted jackasses who seek attention on the Internet because their mommy and daddy didn’t give enough shits to raise them properly. You’re not alone, but you should maybe see a professional and get help.
If this guy was fat and ugly…and black or any other colour than white…would he be so innocent I wonder? He’s a gen z hero and will end up where he belongs. Like all murderers should no matter how right they think they are or how right YOU think they are. Downvote my ass away folks, it has zero meaning to me.
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Idk there’s a lot of gray area in murdering a murderer. Like if Netanyahu visited the US and somebody air holed him I don’t think I could say its bad outcome. Especially when the powers that be refuse to use the system to enforce basic morality.
Is war murder? Do you think veterans of wars should all be executed? Just curious if your absolutionist bullshit is consistent or if you just like the taste of boot.
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How do those boots taste?
He belongs on the streets, continuing to do the hard work. And that’s where he’ll wind up.
