Too many people are confusing the two. Whenever lemmy.ml or its devs do something stupid, people go “Lemmy is getting worse and worse,” or “I’m leaving Lemmy,” or worse, “I’m leaving for Beehaw.”
If you’re using Beehaw, then you’re using Lemmy. Lemmy is the software these instances run on. If you don’t like lemmy.ml, join another instances that have rules that match your philosophy. Some instance hosts authoritarian or fascist shit? Turn to another Lemmy instance. Lemmy.ml is not even the biggest instance. People who just joined and are unfamiliar with the platform will just think the entire Lemmyverse is run by autocratic admins if we don’t get our terminology right.
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I like the sh.itjust.works lemmy because of the name.
Also, apparently they’re run with 99% renewable energy which is pretty cool.
in the past 10 minutes i have had so many mixed emotions towards you.
I have come across your comments about 7 times and each time I either feel like fking you up or giving you a hug.
It’s interesting how opinions of different people may differ or align depending on the context. Wars don’t really matter if you think about it this way…
I propose a truce
I propose a truce
meanwhile them, probably:
I don’t even know who you are.
ikr… I’m sitting here developing a love-hate relationship with someone who is completely oblivious of my existence
Fuck war, it’s hell on Earth.
I’ve seen his comments often too. Kind of wild lol
Dude is a prolific commenter
where am I right now?
Lemmy.world. Which is ONE example of a Lemmy instance. Lemmy instances don’t even need to have Lemmy in the name.
Lemmy is a system that allows anyone to create what is essentially their own Reddit. Each of those are called instances. Lemmy.world is one of those, Lemmy.ml, is another, Beehaw is a third. Each of those Lemmy instances are run by different people for different reasons. Each of them have their own communities. A community is like a subreddit. The post you commented on (“PSA: Lemmy.ml is not Lemmy”) was posted to the “Fediverse” community on Lemmy.world. Lemmy.ml could (and possibly does) have it’s own Fediverse community. That would be separately run with separate content to the Lemmy.world Fediverse community.
Where it gets a little confusing, is that users in each of those different instances, can access and participate in the communities in each other’s instances. IE, if you set up your own Lemmy instance called TimeLighter.IsCool and created a community called “Timelighter appreciation society” I could potentially join that community using my Lemmy.world account (assuming you allowed it.) I wouldn’t need to create an account specifically on the TimeLighter.IsCool Lemmy to access it. If I did though I’d still (in theory) be able to use it to participate in the communities here at Lemmy.world.
WHO ARE YOU PEOPLE?!
THAT’S MY PURSE
I DON’T KNOW YOU
Lemmy feels as a aplha/beta product that we ar all testing right now. Nothing wrong with that, in fact, I like Lemmy more then Reddit. But you cannot expect everyone to love it right now.
For Reddit its clear: you sign up, you search for a community and you subscribe.
Here, you sign up (if you don’t get the spinning wheel). You search for a community. Oh, it is on another instance. What is a instance? Then you browse and see different Lemmy websites. You get confused, you heard something about Fediverse but what is it?
Also, there is no karma what important is for many users. Mod tools are extremly limited and all the apps you can use on mobile are in alpha/beta/in development.
There should be a easy to understand welcome page upon sign-up and I think this needs to be prioritized if we want to welcome (more) mainstream users. The post that explains how Lemmy works on c/lemmyworld doesn’t cut it.
Karma is important? The only “use” for it is to do what? users farm it so adding karma or something similar would just make this place worse
- it can be used to differentiate troll accounts from people that make generally liked comments
- it gives users a rush and encourages participation
- it can help with ranking
Now, that said, there are ways to game those things too, but that’s the concept and some of the bigger benefits.
I still receive PMs every once in a while from random people on Reddit thanking me for comments that I’ve posted years ago. Those comments have less than 20 karma combined. I also have a comment saying “Nice.” which contributes nothing and is sitting at almost 3000. Karma is meaningless.
Nice.
I’m not a karma whore, otherwise I would not post on Lemmy. But when you post something and you see that people agree with it is nice to see. I do not see the problem with karma.
User engagement is important, and karma is one way of driving that engagement. Pretending something’s not important from your high horse because you don’t understand it just makes you look like a spez.
aa
Just out of curiosity, what did the devs do that was stupid?
The devs hold extreme political views. They are on board with the Tiananmen Square massacre being necessary and shit like that. Like this post says though, there are plenty of instances that are totally run by normal people. Additionally, the Lemmy server code is open source, so that helps to ensure that it isn’t doing anything nefarious behind-the-scenes.
More details in the link above, here is the introduction:
"My concern is that users are being banned and content is being removed on lemmy.ml citing a rule that is not publicly stated anywhere that I have seen.
Moderators of lemmy.ml are removing posts and comments which are critical of the Chinese government and are banning their authors."
So, the dev is another /u/spez.
Source: https://kbin.social/m/lemmyworld@lemmy.world/t/47012/-/comment/196579
Text:
Here is one of the Lemmy devs denying that the Uyghur genocide in China is happening:
https://old.reddit.com/r/MapPorn/comments/xq49ct/deleted_by_user/iq954mu/
“The Uyghur genocide is as real as white genocide.”
Here they are again denying it:
https://old.reddit.com/r/MapPorn/comments/xq49ct/deleted_by_user/iq951cv/
“The holocaust was a genocide that actually happened, with all the evidence that goes along with it. There is no Uyghur genocide.”
“Do you believe in anything as soon as the word “genocide” gets attached to it? What about “white genocide”? Are you a white genocide denier?”
And just so nobody can deny that parentis_shotgun is a Lemmy dev: -
“I’m one of the devs of Lemmy” https://i.imgur.com/5kp9BP0.png
Direct links to the posts will not work but still exist on the user’s profile page: https://old.reddit.com/user/parentis_shotgun/ - hold PgDn until comments stop loading then Control+F. In fact feel free to peruse their history in general - it’s quite interesting.
One of my favorite posts is their defense of the government of North Korea in /r/AskTankies: https://old.reddit.com/r/asktankies/comments/tb1836/okay_but_dprk_seriously/i04d1wu/
Now ask yourself why would someone who is not a Red Fascist Tankie piece of shit be answering questions on behalf of Tankies in /r/AskTankies while defending a totalitarian regime? Is it… perhaps because they’re in support of such a regime because they are in fact a Tankie piece of shit?
deleted by creator
Why, what’s wrong with lemmy.ml? Can someone eli5 me?
My account actually lives there but I also made a lemmy world one.
In the lead developer’s GitHub, he sympathizes with Marxism including those that committed atrocities.. He apparently censors lemmy.ml with this in mind. Since it is open source though, I can trust that other instances might be better maintained. There is no way I’ll use any personal information in my signup because this all probably is going to China.
my signup because this all probably is going to China.
China is sophisticated enough that it can vacuum up all the information it wants about without any involvement of a Lemmy.lm admin.
That’s the beauty of the fediverse. Don’t like the server? Go somewhere else.
Based
Leninist. Marxist Leninist is largely an oxymoron as Lenin just sort of ignored a lot of core things Marx discussed. Specifically going against many of them. There are many different Marxism derived ideologies that aren’t ML and don’t sympathize or apologize for the atrocities of ML or capitalist regimes. Please don’t lump them all together.
As far as Leninist go. I agree with you 💯% though.
When it comes to physics Einstein has yet to be proven wrong for just about anything. When it came to politics and human nature. Einstein was not known to be any great judge. And even then. That’s feinting praise. Einstein knew how to throw shade.
Ok, firstly you are not smarter than Einstein.
Secondly. What are you on about? He said this in 1929. Lenin had been dead for 5 years already when he said this. Stalin was leader of the USSR and everything about Lenin and the revolutionary years was perfectly well known. Pretending that Einstein was simply unaware of the events that he actually lived through at the time is ridiculous.
Seeing as he died in 55
That’s 31 years after Lenin. Having lived through Weimer Germany as a jewish man, watching and applauding the success of the soviet revolution, seeing the failure of the german revolution after the murder of rosa luxembourg, fleeing to the US, and watching the USSR liberate nazi Germany auschwitz and all the camps of the holocaust that he narrowly avoided being part of himself.
He commented on the US in his later life actually, in December 1947 he stated:
“I came to America because of the great, great freedom which I heard existed in this country. I made a mistake in selecting America as a land of freedom, a mistake I cannot repair in the balance of my life.”
The FBI had a 250 page file on einstein, you can view it here: https://vault.fbi.gov/Albert Einstein
On page 14 the report says:
“Not even Stalin himself is affiliated with so many anarcho-communist international groups to promote this “preliminary condition” of world revolution and ultimate anarchy, as Albert Einstein.”
Oh the ml in lemmy.ml is Marxist lenonist. That makes a lot of sense actually
You literally just made that up. I’m pretty sure they said at some point that they chose this simply cause its free.
I was wrong, and it was a guess using context clues from the post I was replying too.
I didn’t “make it up”, I was just incorrect.
I just get kinda pissed off at comments like that because I’ve been using lemmy for like 3 years now and they’ve never done something wrong but now there are some people that just say stuff about them that’s not even true. Your comment wasn’t the first like that after all.
In the lead developer’s GitHub, he sympathizes with Marxism
Based
There is no way I’ll use any personal information in my signup because this all probably is going to China.
Typical liberalism red scare fearmongering, lemmy has no ties to China.
In the lead developer’s GitHub, he sympathizes with Marxism including those that committed atrocities …
FTFY
It’s funny which part of the quote you decided to omit. Tankies gonna tank, eh?
For those who haven’t checked - in the linked page dessalines(Lemmy lead dev) recommends books and articles by, among others, Lenin, Stalin & Castro.
Stalin went too far, sure. We know.
Fidel did nothing wrong. Lenin did what he had to do for the sake of revolution.
I haven’t read those works they mentioned so I can’t say if they defend the atrocities of those regimes (they very well might), but I wouldn’t say suggesting a book about those political ideologies implies you believe the atrocities committed by those regimes were acceptable.
But I’m also totally ready for someone to tell me they do in fact minimize the bad things. As someone born in the American south who was raised with echos of Lost Cause propaganda I’m familiar with folks twisting a horrible truth.
That’s basically one of the common concerns I see, just kind of in addition to the general tankie vibes that are shared by many in lemmy.ml and lemmygrad which are sympathetic to communist regimes that have committed atrocities.
They prevent incoming traffic from kbin. Sp, only leach kbin’s contents, but not sharing back.
Some users accused developers as being tankies. Not sure how true this is.
Oh they’re absolutely tankies, dessalines website is crystal clear on that. To me this is simply a test of the fediverse. If it works as intended, the devs political orientation shouldn’t matter. We’ll see.
Are we talking about the devs of Lemmy itself, or people specific to .ml?
.ml is run by the Lemmy devs.
Oh that’s not good. That goes against the spirit of federation. I wonder what their reasons are.
Nobody knows for sure, but my guess is they blocked any request with “Bot” in the header, and blocked the “KbinBot” by accident.
Just a guess though.
OP is annoyed because lemmy.ml devs are left-leaning and don’t encourage bombing muslim countries, killing gays or locking black people in areas abandoned by the government.
Well, how do you feel about the Chinese government and the North Korean one? Good? Hopeful they expand? They do.
Hi friend! I’m not sure how this is possibly related to my question. But thank you anyway.
It feels like this is more aimed at outing admins or mod teams that people will disagree with. I have no issue with any other Lemmy instance, because I’m not a member of their instance. The community will have some things to figure out as far as easily relating the nature of instances and the fediverse, which it looks like will take some trial and error.
There’s things users will pick up on just fine, while the main complaint is “too many communities” where people desire a centralized system to replace Reddit with. It’s my personal opinion that people only think they want a centralized system, and given the situation with Reddit, it highlights how beneficial of a concept the Fediverse and Lemmy itself is over a centralized system, but I digress.
Lemmy.ml’s stances on Russia, China, and “tankies” is great…for them. I have no issue with how any other instance is run or what their community prefers for a style of moderation. They are free to run it as they see it. It’s telling that it went from the largest instance to taking a backseat to many others though given the word got out prior to this post, and that’s fine. I won’t begrudge them over their instance’s nature. It just makes me love Lemmy as a whole.
People like this are actually the best ones to have running such a project. For them it’s not just a pet-project to pass time, or a small way to show their skills. It’s a necessary step for them, to be able to keep their online presence.
You’d be surprised at how effective people can be, when they’re doing something out of spite.
Seriously, if you don’t understand the politics of the lemmy devs, you’re functionally not understanding the point of lemmy. I think people believe in more socialist ideas than they’ve been lead to believe, especially with the rampant conflating of “leftists” in media to mix it with liberals as a tactic from the right. Lemmy is inherently political, and that’s a GOOD thing.
Let’s be honest. In Western Nations. People aren’t taught what socialism is ever. I mean I can only honestly speak for myself and the 1980s. But all we were really taught about as far as socialism is that Commies/ML bad. Which is fair enough. Capitalists are bad too. The problem being that we were never educated in any way shape or form about other left-wing ideologies. We’re to go out to the average person on the street and ask them to describe or define anarchism I can guarantee you. But most of them would have no real sense of the actual ideology and just give you some sort of reply coming down to chaos. Likewise the majority of them have no knowledge of or concept that libertarianism is a left-wing ideology. And has only been recently co-opted by the right wing to do damage in recent history. Almost every single person you ever asked about libertarianism would wrongly describe it as a right-wing ideology. And that is all on purpose. Because it behooves the wealthy to keep us uninformed.
I just had a look at Lemmy’s GitHub. Of the web interface alone, the second biggest contributor only joined two weeks ago. And there are many others. Those are new developers. So in essence: lemmy.ml admins are some of the software developers and are actually now in the minority, unless I missed something very obvious.
This might be a stupid question, so forgive me. Who controls what happens to the actual software? Like, if a hundred great ideas get added to the GitHub, who controls which ones make it into the next version of Lemmy?
Lemmy.ml devs own the repo, it’s just licensed as open source software under the GNU AFFERO GENERAL PUBLIC LICENSE. You can read the license in the repo files. So you can fork off it and run your own instance. If you go to GitHub.com/LemmyNet you see the two people who are members of the project, with the accounts, both have Fidel Castro avatars.
Personally I think having a bunch of socialists run the software, is by definition the best way to have it avoid corporate interests.
If the main project start doing something stupid, other devs can just fork the project as a new lemmy project with a new kind of government of how codes are merged into the project.
I actually haven’t seen much mention of tankies on any Lemmy except as a joking reference here or there. I’m on lemmy.ml and the signup there said explicitly that it is a free software community. The signup had no particular reference to other politics, though I have no idea what is present in the admins’ minds. There is also lemmygrad.ml which is explicitly socialist.
If you haven’t seen tankies denying genocide and/or saying the victims brought it on themselves, then, I suspect you haven’t been looking very far in the comments of the news community there, to be fair. There are a lot of posters who will defend Russia, China, Syria etc all day long. All their crimes are apparently made up by “western media”, (as if Jimmy Dore’s basement isn’t in the west.)
Fortunately, they’re getting super buttmad lately at being downvoted so much.
Are comments that criticize Russia, China, Syria, etc being taken down?
“leftists” nowadays who defend Russia seem extremely pathetic to me. The only thing Russia has in common with leftism is a general dislike for the activities of the United States. But there are many other groups who opposed the US, such as Nazi Germany, which doesn’t necessarily make them your ally. As a Russian-american I can say that a lot of media and discourse on Russia in the west has incredibly poor overall quality, but it’s not a CIA psyop, it’s a combination of American exceptionalism, genuine issues, and zero cultural awareness.
I only see leftists defending Russia here and on Twitter. Internet is littered with those croks. Honestly been thinking in leaving social media as a whole. Would make me saner.
The trick is to curate your feed. Like a podcast? Find a community for that. Have a hobby or a hobby you are thinking of doing? Get some of those. You fill you feed with specific interest you like. If you want to check on news you specifically visit the that feed but you never join it or subscribe and you never look at the comments. Or you just read a newspaper. A proper one. If you want your social media to be fun you cant just doom scroll the r/all or whatever it’s equivalent is called.
I’ve been going through the “de-social media” line. I have friends to tell me the important news and send me memes anyway.
If you really care that much about “Authoritarians” and “Tankies”, maybe you should just move to exploding-heads.
I joined Lemmy a while ago and I suddenly got exposed to many “tankie” debates going on. Is there a reason this group suddenly became relevant on Lemmy (I mean, from the view of a Reddit migrant)?
Because thanks to the federated setup we get exposed to a wider range of ideas. There are people who are actually socialist or communist and support countries like Cuba and see what China is trying to do with communism there and offer different perspectives. Western media is flooded with anti China propaganda because the capitalists just can’t compete with a state run economy. So the word ‘tankie’ is what capitalists or liberals use to shut down Marxist dialogue over these countries. It’s basically used the way MAGA idiots use ‘woke’. The meaning is ambiguous and the point is to stop ‘bad ideas’ from being discussed.
So the word ‘tankie’ is what capitalists or liberals use to shut down Marxist dialogue over these countries
Tankie is a term coined by dissident socialists and communists to refer to authoritarian Stalinist/Maoist leftists who are hostile to libertarian or democratic leftist movements, or any other kind of democratic movement. Comparing it with “woke” (which has no well-defined meaning) is ridiculous.
The people who are labeled tankies are very much anti-democratic. Them being leftist or communist is actually not an issue at all. The problem is they either 1) Attempt to gaslight about authoritarian regimes (for example by claiming said regimes are not authoritarian, that their “elections” are real, or that everything is western propaganda), or 2) Unabashedly support these regimes, sometimes claiming that their victims “deserved” it.
Tankie was recouperated from dissident socialists, the way it’s used today has very little to do with its origin. Just because something starts out as a politically radical idea doesn’t mean it can’t get twisted in bourgeois society. It’s mostly just used as a smear to mean “communist I don’t like”
It’s like woke - what started as a term used by BLM to criticize oppression of minorities was recouperated and now it’s been turned into a right-wing smear and lost all meaning.
doesn’t mean it can’t get twisted in bourgeois society. It’s mostly just used as a smear to mean “communist I don’t like”
No, not at all. It simply means “Communist who supports oppression & authoritarianism”. European socialists, especially eastern Europeans, still use it in this exact same meaning to this day. The non-bourgeois workers & trade unionists who were subjected to decades of oppression under various Stalinist regimes also use it.
The entire argument is pointless and trite anyway. Most of the people in this thread taking offence at the term “tankie” do in fact support authoritarianism and are attempting to gaslight readers about it.
“support”
You keep using this word, but do you really think any of the people you call tankies have actually done anything to support these countries? Or, more likely, are you using “support” to mean “refuse to condemn/disavow”?
Well, count me in to that group.
I will not join the imperialist dogpile against China. My opinions about their government is irrelevant at best, and at worst by joining in the echo chamber of “China Bad!” then I am helping America pave the way for a war it so obviously wants.
If you want to call that support, then I have to ask why supposed “socialists” are joining America in attacking China!
You keep using this word, but do you really think any of the people you call tankies have actually done anything to support these countries? Or, more likely, are you using “support” to mean “refuse to condemn/disavow”?
I couldn’t care less if tankies “only” refused to condemn China/Russia/DPRK or whatever oppressive regime they think is anti-imperialist – indeed, I wouldn’t even describe this group as tankies. The cold-war “tankies” weren’t passive or neutral either.
The tankies you see here, even in this thread, actively dehumanize and gaslight people resisting these regimes, and attempt to delegitimize any act of resistance against them, even if indigenous. These are the kind of people who would smear actual leftist activists in Russia, China or Iran as “CIA Agents” in the hope that said regimes continue existing, to take revenge against the US. This worldview espouses that nobody has any agency except the US (and its authoritarian adversaries), because every opponent of these regimes has to be agent of the US.
If you want to call that support, then I have to ask why supposed “socialists” are joining America in attacking China!
Refusing to condemn something isn’t the same as lending support. Gaslighting people about the Tianamen Massacre, about the treatment of Uighurs, or about creeping authoritarianism in HK is, however, definitely a form of support.
Socialists who oppose the CCP tend to do that for entirely different reasons than the US. Not that there is much socialism to support there. Labour rights and protections under the CCP are inferior to the average European country, with the rampant 996 culture and very few instances of collective labor action, which is seen as undesirable and suppressed by the party.
I, for one, fully support the explicitly antifascist politics of the core maintainers
Agreed. There is too much false equivalence of “Tankies” and fascists.
Fascists want to enslave your sisters and daughters and stick your trans friends in psych wards until they “decide” to stop being trans. They’re fine with Blacks wallowing in poverty as second-class citizens and having militarized police on every streetcorner.
“Tankies” (Marxist-Leninists) believe in all the same progressive things other (so-called) Socialists do but have different views on historical figures and foreign policy, something that does not matter a bit in the here and now.
Here is the difference between Fascists and “Tankies”: if it was proven beyond a shadow of a doubt that China was trying to exterminate the Ughyr people through mass execution, 95% of the “Tankies” out there, myself included, would disown China and denounce the genocide (this will not happen, because it isn’t a genocide except in the broadest and most meaningless of terms). If it was proven beyond a doubt that the Holocaust happened (which it more or less has), the majority of Neo-Nazis would still say it was good.
Saying you’d denounce a genocide you deny is happening isn’t accomplishing what you think it is.
People don’t equate “tankies” with “fascists” because you advocate some sort of marxist-inspired system of governance… it’s because denying the suffering of others when it’s politically convenient is absolutely the opening strategy of the fascist playbook.
Also, “Disown China”??? Nothing wrong with liking other countries but the way you guys talk about them is off putting and doesn’t come across as informed or even remotely unbiased.
Being “unbiased” is not a virtue. I am a Marxist. I judge people, governments, and ideas based off of a Marxist framework. That is my bias.
I give China the benefit of the doubt because they are, at least, claiming to be a Marxist state. This on its own puts them above any non-Marxist state.
Isn’t claiming to be a Marxist state while still maintaining power within a small group of people (the inner party, a political version of the bourgeois) worse? By effectively being the same power structure, it allows critics to dismiss Marxist ideals as the same or worse. China is a particularly bad case as they disallow proper freedom of speech, basically castrating the proletariat. This harms perception of Marxism, hurting your case in arguing for it
Isn’t claiming to be a Marxist state while still maintaining power within a small group of people (the inner party, a political version of the bourgeois) worse?
The Chinese system isn’t perfect but I think questions like these put the cart before the horse. Is the Chinese system set up in such a way that, if bad actors got their way to the top, they would wield an immense amount of power? Yes, definitely. This question is separate from whether or not the people at the top right now are bad actors. And I think, like in any country, it’s a mixed bag; there are oligarchs and business-industry plants and corrupt officials, but there’s also well-meaning bureaucrats (Xi Jinping broadly fits into this category) and ideologically-driven Marxists.
The idea that Xi Jinping is a power-hungry dictator is an overblown trope. He is a fat, old, boring bureaucrat who got into office because he is an agreeable political moderate; a compromise between the ideological Marxist wing of the party and the pro-business Dengist wing.
As we saw in the Soviet Union, unrestricted Freedom of Speech is the downfall of Marxism. Home-grown Liberals are only the first issue; the United States government spends literally billions of dollars propping up anti-government organizations, whether that’s Uyghur terrorist groups, the Falun Gong, Tibetan Independence movements, or “LGBTQ+ Rights” organizations who always seem to spend more time arguing for political liberalization than they do actual LGBTQ+ Rights (and, before you strawman me, I want to make my point here clear: LGBTQ+ Rights are good, but many such organizations in China are funded by foreign actors in order to disrupt Chinese politics. The bad things about them are not their LGBTQ+ Rights advocacy, but their advocacy for other forms of Liberalization that undermine Communism in China. If an LGBTQ+ Rights organization in China calls for the downfall of the CPC, they do not deserve to exist)
Sorry, but you are exactly the kind of person everyone is talking about being awful.
I dare you, go to Taipei, Taichung, Kaohsiung, where there are much - vastly - greater lgbt rights, freedom of press, freedom of speech, freedom to protest, uncensored internet and media, etc, than in China, and tell anyone passing by this Xi bootlick spiel. Ask them if they’re happy to see how Hong Kong has been treated.
He is far from harmless. He’s an imperialist who, in his own words several times wants to use military force to impose his flag on millions of unwilling people who already have their own democracy.
I think some of the foundations of your arguments are shaky at best.
Xi is a bad actor. He actively removes opponents, like his predecessor, Hu Jintao, who sat right fucking next to him and was publicly removed. Under Xi, China is asserting ownership of international waters in the South China Sea that have historically been either international waters or even owned by smaller nations. Under Xi, the Uyghers’ and Mongolians’ culture is actively being erased by outlawing local religious and cultural customs. I fail to see how any of these active are “agreeable” or “moderate”. Going back to the Marxist theme, Uyghers and Mongolians are of the working class, too. Why should they be persecuted?
Free speech is the downfall of Marxism??? What? Seriously? The Soviet Union didn’t fall because people were complaining. It fell because their systems weren’t economically viable. While many of the domestic programs of the Soviet Union were excellent, the cost due to size versus productive population was prohibitive. Most of the USSR’s land wasn’t economically viable, but they held things together through totalitarianism, which again, isn’t really empowering the workers. Once they let up on the totalitarianism, the cracks started to show. Maybe if the USSR was smaller and had managed their bureaucracy better, they could have succeeded, but that wasn’t the case. It had nothing to do with freedom of speech. And if the workers can’t voice their needs and desires, that’s depriving workers of power, which is the opposite of Marxism. I don’t think there has been a properly Marxist state.
I don’t know where you’re getting your information and history from or what your path is for your reasoning, but it really doesn’t make sense to me
