So not only are employees getting raped by 401Ks and HSAs but a 3rd time with this new Emergency Savings Account. Why the fuck dont they just pay us more?
You do realize that 401k and HSA accounts are voluntary tax shelters for specific saving/spending purposes, right? Nobody is “getting raped” by these; they are a way for people to save a portion of their wages for a specific purpose without having to pay income tax on it (for HSA) or deferring its taxation until it’s withdrawn after retirement age (with 401k). And 401k plans are commonly matched by employers, meaning that you get money for free by saving some of yours.
No, some companies are opt-out instead of opt-in, meaning that you will contribute to a 401k by default, but you always have the option to change your contribution to zero. And yes, employers commonly match 401k contributions.
Even if they don’t, the tax benefits of using a 401k makes them outweigh any private retirement investments you would make, with the exception of a traditional IRA.
They could just not tax the things that are eligible for HSA in the first place.
They could do single payer so everyone gets coverage at a lower tax rate than they currently pay for insurance.
They could fund social security based on a percentage of all income instead of having a cap around 100k.
They could get rid of all the tax breaks for the wealthy so the tax burden wouldn’t need to be so hard on the median and lower income earners.
HSA are putting the blame on the person for being sick and 401k exists to both pump some mo ey into the system to inflate stocks and to get the regular person to care about the stock market. Both are just there to screw over the public for the benefit of the wealthy so we don’t nationalize healthcare and properly fund social security.
You are aware there are several nations with higher taxes right? Its not a tax issue. Its a cost of other things thats a major issue. If low income people are still struggling after gettting their refund during tax prep, its not an income tax problem.
Especially given that the article mentions miami, and florida is in like the bottom 5 in income taxes
A lot of people who pay $20-30k+ a year in taxes are also struggling.
Mortgages have gone up, milk has gone up, eggs are too expensive, a lot of countries (like Canada, where I live) are increasing carbon taxes. Gas is already $1.70 a litre!
Wages are one thing, but how many people can just swallow a mortgage payment that increase $500-$700 a month?
I get it, you want to make more money, but something the government can actually do is let you keep more of the money you do actually earn.
Are the people paying 20k-30k the people who cant afford the 500$ emergency spending though. Not saying there aren’t any (as someone might have a ridiculous amount of debt) but those making that much are way more likely to afford the 500$ emergency fund than the low income who almost pay no income tax in the first place (no federal, as thats returned in the form of a refund, and variable state based on state.)
Changing icome tax doesnt adresss the majority of people who have the problem the post is about. Theres already like 8(?) States without income tax
You have to understand how expensive it is supporting a family right now. People are spending an insane amount of money on groceries alone. $1,000 - $1,800 a month
The gas to get to work for a two income household could be upwards of $1,000 a month.
Mortgage renewal? Hope you have an extra $700 a month laying around.
Cad payments? Ya that’s going to add another $200-$300 a month in interest payments alone now.
And forget it if you have kids. Daycare, physical activities, summer camp? Maybe another $12k per year depending on how many kids you have!
The issue here is that the middle class are also being destroyed and without them there’s no money to even give to the government to help lower income people.
In Canada, $150k a year for a family of 5 is low income now.
At least lower income people get subsidized food and housing. Middle class? They get 20% interest on credit cards to keep afloat.
This isn’t about wages, it’s about costs. All of them of which taxes are just one. A big one, but just one.
You can attack the corpo’s later, right now the fight is with the government to get the money going out under control.
You can get a 50% raise, but if you’re still spending 70% more to eat and have a roof over your head, it doesn’t really matter does it?
If shit was more affordable, maybe $40k a year could be a livable wage again. Cause right now it’s not.
So your answer to fixing a problem is lowering imcome tax? A solution that doesnt even fix the problem for the target audience in the first place. Its nonsensical to completely ignore the likely largest group of people that need the help.
The people who have debt in mortgages is based on what kind of home they bought. Its an opportunity cost on why they chose x home over what might have been the cheapest home they could have bought (not saying that there arent people who just buys the cheapest home possible in an area, but they arent likely the majoirty). The person who has a mortgage at least has a house, the people that cant afford the 500 month to month emergency fund likely has nothing.
I wont even get to the point where its the people who have houses are the ones making it harder for more houses to get built because they want to maintain the value of their house at the cost of those who have not.
So what I hear you saying is that families with homes should just lose their homes because funding the government is more important? And they should have thought of that before buying a home?
Are you a fucking idiot?
Let’s just make MORE poverty stricken people, the government comes before all! It sounds like you just want everyone to hand over their pay cheques to the government so they can decide who gets what and when they get it, so we can all be totally fucked.
where did i state that I said it’s more important. I only stated that ignoring the main group of people that the article is discussing is a pretty dumb fix.
there are a lot of adjustments a person could make per month due to less income, and housing doesn’t have to be first. if one is spending 1000$ on groceries for a group, but someone barely making it by is making it with less means there’s discrepancy in spending habits with groceries. can dial it down to the rest. Same goes with Children and other choices of spending, but it ultimately goes down to fixing costs because thats whats boning everyone, while the original comment chain was about fixing debt (in a way that doesn’t help everyone, as there are already regions and people who are completely unaffected by income tax), which not exactly everyone who cant afford 500$ month to month is necessarily in.
Income tax is not a fix, its a band aid that works for some that makes no progress on fixing the actual problem and only kicks it down the road for the discussion to happen again later. You haven’t even discussed what happens when there is no income tax and things get expensive enough then, what are you going to do then? You had all the time to discuss it at the point I mentioned some people already pay no income tax.
Our taxes aren’t even that high. Look at what people used to pay up until the 80’s. We should go back to where we actually taxed millionaires and corporations instead of coming up with yet another tax haven account for them. Regular people can’t contribute to these things because they don’t have the disposable income. They are meant for the rich with some bullshit excuse to make us feel good.
Well, I like roads and bridges being fixed, and good reliable weather forecasts, and standardized weights and measures, and a functional department of justice, labor, food and drug safety, standardized phone and Internet protocols so companies can’t completely lock us in their walled gardens, cars that are safe to drive, etc. So I’m happy with the taxes part of that equation
That’s great, have a look at what those things should cost and then look at how the government is mismanaging their funding that we give them
Why even bother with wages, just have the corporations pay the government directly for our work. The government can figure out how to distribute everything and fuck us all
“Should” cost. Yeah I’m gonna need citations for that one. You really and honestly believe the libertarian nonsense that private, for-profit corporations are going to provide those same high quality services and fuck us less?
And make no mistake, those are high quality services. Corporations are perfect happy to use all the free data generated by the National Weather Service, US Geological Survey, NIH, NSF, NIST, etc precisely because it’s world class. It’s funny how the only things that people complain about the “government” doing are all the things that cost corporations money like product and environmental safety. Or social services that are deliberately inefficient so conservatives can keep complaining about how bad “government services” are. It would be a lot more efficient if they would just give poor people fucking cash.
So not only are employees getting raped by 401Ks and HSAs but a 3rd time with this new Emergency Savings Account. Why the fuck dont they just pay us more?
You do realize that 401k and HSA accounts are voluntary tax shelters for specific saving/spending purposes, right? Nobody is “getting raped” by these; they are a way for people to save a portion of their wages for a specific purpose without having to pay income tax on it (for HSA) or deferring its taxation until it’s withdrawn after retirement age (with 401k). And 401k plans are commonly matched by employers, meaning that you get money for free by saving some of yours.
Some companies have mandatory 401k deductions whether you request it or not.
Ashley Furniture (sue me if you care)
Granted, it is technically a 401k and accumulates but they don’t pay any towards it so I don’t give a fuck, give it to me so I can invest it myself.
Funny… funny guy.
No, some companies are opt-out instead of opt-in, meaning that you will contribute to a 401k by default, but you always have the option to change your contribution to zero. And yes, employers commonly match 401k contributions.
Even if they don’t, the tax benefits of using a 401k makes them outweigh any private retirement investments you would make, with the exception of a traditional IRA.
They could just not tax the things that are eligible for HSA in the first place.
They could do single payer so everyone gets coverage at a lower tax rate than they currently pay for insurance.
They could fund social security based on a percentage of all income instead of having a cap around 100k.
They could get rid of all the tax breaks for the wealthy so the tax burden wouldn’t need to be so hard on the median and lower income earners.
HSA are putting the blame on the person for being sick and 401k exists to both pump some mo ey into the system to inflate stocks and to get the regular person to care about the stock market. Both are just there to screw over the public for the benefit of the wealthy so we don’t nationalize healthcare and properly fund social security.
Maybe the government should just stop taking so much off your pay cheque
You are aware there are several nations with higher taxes right? Its not a tax issue. Its a cost of other things thats a major issue. If low income people are still struggling after gettting their refund during tax prep, its not an income tax problem.
Especially given that the article mentions miami, and florida is in like the bottom 5 in income taxes
I’d like to know when “State and Federal taxes” worked 6 hours of my shift because I can’t remember.
Sometimes it goes into things people dont care about, and other times it goes into things people take for granted.
For example, if you took a road to work today, that road didnt pay for itself.
And businesses used those roads to move goods, but only have to pay taxes on profits.
Your taxes also go to the fire department and the health department. I’d say most people think those are pretty necessary.
A lot of people who pay $20-30k+ a year in taxes are also struggling.
Mortgages have gone up, milk has gone up, eggs are too expensive, a lot of countries (like Canada, where I live) are increasing carbon taxes. Gas is already $1.70 a litre!
Wages are one thing, but how many people can just swallow a mortgage payment that increase $500-$700 a month?
I get it, you want to make more money, but something the government can actually do is let you keep more of the money you do actually earn.
Are the people paying 20k-30k the people who cant afford the 500$ emergency spending though. Not saying there aren’t any (as someone might have a ridiculous amount of debt) but those making that much are way more likely to afford the 500$ emergency fund than the low income who almost pay no income tax in the first place (no federal, as thats returned in the form of a refund, and variable state based on state.)
Changing icome tax doesnt adresss the majority of people who have the problem the post is about. Theres already like 8(?) States without income tax
You have to understand how expensive it is supporting a family right now. People are spending an insane amount of money on groceries alone. $1,000 - $1,800 a month
The gas to get to work for a two income household could be upwards of $1,000 a month.
Mortgage renewal? Hope you have an extra $700 a month laying around.
Cad payments? Ya that’s going to add another $200-$300 a month in interest payments alone now.
And forget it if you have kids. Daycare, physical activities, summer camp? Maybe another $12k per year depending on how many kids you have!
The issue here is that the middle class are also being destroyed and without them there’s no money to even give to the government to help lower income people.
In Canada, $150k a year for a family of 5 is low income now.
At least lower income people get subsidized food and housing. Middle class? They get 20% interest on credit cards to keep afloat.
This isn’t about wages, it’s about costs. All of them of which taxes are just one. A big one, but just one.
You can attack the corpo’s later, right now the fight is with the government to get the money going out under control.
You can get a 50% raise, but if you’re still spending 70% more to eat and have a roof over your head, it doesn’t really matter does it?
If shit was more affordable, maybe $40k a year could be a livable wage again. Cause right now it’s not.
So your answer to fixing a problem is lowering imcome tax? A solution that doesnt even fix the problem for the target audience in the first place. Its nonsensical to completely ignore the likely largest group of people that need the help.
The people who have debt in mortgages is based on what kind of home they bought. Its an opportunity cost on why they chose x home over what might have been the cheapest home they could have bought (not saying that there arent people who just buys the cheapest home possible in an area, but they arent likely the majoirty). The person who has a mortgage at least has a house, the people that cant afford the 500 month to month emergency fund likely has nothing.
I wont even get to the point where its the people who have houses are the ones making it harder for more houses to get built because they want to maintain the value of their house at the cost of those who have not.
So what I hear you saying is that families with homes should just lose their homes because funding the government is more important? And they should have thought of that before buying a home?
Are you a fucking idiot?
Let’s just make MORE poverty stricken people, the government comes before all! It sounds like you just want everyone to hand over their pay cheques to the government so they can decide who gets what and when they get it, so we can all be totally fucked.
This Lemmy crowd is filled with morons.
where did i state that I said it’s more important. I only stated that ignoring the main group of people that the article is discussing is a pretty dumb fix.
there are a lot of adjustments a person could make per month due to less income, and housing doesn’t have to be first. if one is spending 1000$ on groceries for a group, but someone barely making it by is making it with less means there’s discrepancy in spending habits with groceries. can dial it down to the rest. Same goes with Children and other choices of spending, but it ultimately goes down to fixing costs because thats whats boning everyone, while the original comment chain was about fixing debt (in a way that doesn’t help everyone, as there are already regions and people who are completely unaffected by income tax), which not exactly everyone who cant afford 500$ month to month is necessarily in.
Income tax is not a fix, its a band aid that works for some that makes no progress on fixing the actual problem and only kicks it down the road for the discussion to happen again later. You haven’t even discussed what happens when there is no income tax and things get expensive enough then, what are you going to do then? You had all the time to discuss it at the point I mentioned some people already pay no income tax.
What are you driving, two Escalades?
Honestly with the recent inflation they should not even collect taxes on the first 100k.
Agreed 100%
Our taxes aren’t even that high. Look at what people used to pay up until the 80’s. We should go back to where we actually taxed millionaires and corporations instead of coming up with yet another tax haven account for them. Regular people can’t contribute to these things because they don’t have the disposable income. They are meant for the rich with some bullshit excuse to make us feel good.
I pay 30% of every dollar I make and I also pay another 18% or so every time I spend a dollar directly to the government.
And the prices of EVERYTHING has Skyrocketed!
When prices go up, the goods and services taxes you pay also go up. When prices go down, they go down too.
Interest rates are killing people, prices are killing people, taxes on top of taxes are killing people
Well, I like roads and bridges being fixed, and good reliable weather forecasts, and standardized weights and measures, and a functional department of justice, labor, food and drug safety, standardized phone and Internet protocols so companies can’t completely lock us in their walled gardens, cars that are safe to drive, etc. So I’m happy with the taxes part of that equation
That’s great, have a look at what those things should cost and then look at how the government is mismanaging their funding that we give them
Why even bother with wages, just have the corporations pay the government directly for our work. The government can figure out how to distribute everything and fuck us all
“Should” cost. Yeah I’m gonna need citations for that one. You really and honestly believe the libertarian nonsense that private, for-profit corporations are going to provide those same high quality services and fuck us less?
And make no mistake, those are high quality services. Corporations are perfect happy to use all the free data generated by the National Weather Service, US Geological Survey, NIH, NSF, NIST, etc precisely because it’s world class. It’s funny how the only things that people complain about the “government” doing are all the things that cost corporations money like product and environmental safety. Or social services that are deliberately inefficient so conservatives can keep complaining about how bad “government services” are. It would be a lot more efficient if they would just give poor people fucking cash.
Yes, lets destroy the commons even more. /s
It’s okay that you’ll lose your house, because there are people without houses.
Perfect retarded communist point of view. Let’s just make everyone poor, then we can just change the definition of what poor is
Just don’t call me a capitalist, or I might take offense.
I don’t think I would ever mistake you for a capitalist
Thanks!