• __dev@lemmy.world
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      1 year ago

      In recent memory I’ve had both a microphone driver bug in Linux and one in macOS with specific hardware. Only one of them was fixed with an update.

    • TheInsane42@lemmy.world
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      That would be really annoying (when I would use sound)

      On the other hand, the Nvidia card I use refuses to work via the external monitor (USB-C) at power on when plugged in. Power on, then plug in, then I have screen… weird.

      • Apple: We support apple hardware
      • Microsoft: We support hardware from this list
      • Linux: You want support, write it yourself.
      • Nvidia: You want support, use windows
      • Laptop developers: You want performance, oh, you’re a gamer, here have a Nvidia card.

      You might ask, why a laptop: power consumption for the moments I don’t need power. I don’t want QHD on 17", 24" is better for my aging eyes so external monitor is a requirement. (previous one had 4K on 15", cheapest screen option to buy)

      • Honytawk@lemmy.zip
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        Who out there using computers without sound?

        I bet you say it was your own choice as well to miss a standard feature.

        Why yes, I do use a computer without a monitor, I have memorised everything! No don’t look behind the curtain at the shattered monitor, it was my own choice!

        • TheInsane42@lemmy.world
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          Who out there using computers without sound?

          I use my computers without sound, until I watch a vid (I use headphones for that). I hate the constant beeps for attention. Same with tablets, no sound, not even when playing a game. The only device that is allowed to make a sound is the phone. (and then very limited)

    • orphiebaby@lemm.ee
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      I literally never got sound working on Ubuntu. MSI motherboard, Phenom II quad at the time.

    • nintendiator@feddit.cl
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      Sure, if you go with that attitude PulseAudio.

      Uninstalled it for ALSA on every (every) machine I’ve touched that has to do audio, and haven’t had issues since 2015.

  • HeyMrDeadMan@lemmy.world
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    I’m really triggered by the idea that Linux makes running old software easy. The bane of my existence is finding an application that depends on libButts.5.1, but my distro ships with libButts.5.3, which isn’t backward compatible for some reason, and trying to install libButts.5.1 bricks the desktop environment for some reason.

    • eumesmo@lemmings.world
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      I just searched for that lib, in an attempt to help you with the supposed problem. I won’t deny, you got me there.

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        All potentially fantastic ideas had the original author bothered to package in any of those formats. Much more common is the only release is a .deb built for an ancient version of Ubuntu, leading to my above frustrstions.

        • dustyData@lemmy.world
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          1. Stop bothering with dead software.
          2. You can repackage old FOSS source code into any of those containers and install and use it that way. Nothing is stopping you, the tools are free and widely documented. You don’t need to own the FOSS repository to repackage it, and actually a huge chunk of containers are packaged by people not affiliated with the development project of the software.
          • LemoineFairclough@sh.itjust.worksOP
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            1 year ago

            I think we will become better served over time by using systems like the AUR or nix as it seems quite straightforward to make new software available with them. Both of those systems define the method a package should be built with, so even if the maintainer is long gone and the package hasn’t been updated in a long time it will probably still be possible to build, or any changes needed to build it can be easily shared to save other people troubleshooting effort.

            The drawbacks are: nix doesn’t seem to have an elegant way to define that users or groups should be created (e.g. at least one package providing locate requires that) (though it does have at least one non-elegant way and one manual but less non-elegant way), and a package usable with pacman has lacked a definition of what version of every dependency it requires in at least one case where it would have been useful to me (even though that is possible apparently), so if anything made a backwards-incompatible change you may not be able to use the package manager alone to troubleshoot.

        • Kusimulkku@lemm.ee
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          I’ve had poor luck with AppImage. Because of how it works, it has failed in the exact thing it was supposed to do, just werk everywhere. But I’ve heard it generally works well.

        • Nefyedardu@kbin.social
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          I mean not really, Appimage has been around since 2004, flatpak/docker for about a decade now. But at any rate I don’t see your point, the person I replied to said it’s hard to run old applications on Linux and I gave him solutions on how to do that. What does their age have to do with anything?

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            I don’t see your point, the person I replied to said it’s hard to run old applications on Linux and I gave him solutions on how to do that. What does their age have to do with anything?

            it’s hard to run old applications on Linux

            What does their age have to do with anything

            I’m not sure if you’re taking the piss but since those solutions are so recent, you won’t find old applications packaged with those solutions.

            • Nefyedardu@kbin.social
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              They don’t need to be packaged at the time of creation anyway, they can be packaged right now. Distrobox makes this easy, like let’s say you need an application that only works on Ubuntu 18.04. It’s two commands:

              distrobox create --image ubuntu:18.04 ubuntu

              distrobox enter ubuntu -- sudo apt-get install _package_

              Then to export the package to your desktop you can even do

              distrobox enter ubuntu -- distrobox export --app _application_

              Boom, you have an Ubuntu 18.04 application on an OS of your choosing. You can theoretically do this with any distro, distrobox can use any OCI images from docker-hub, quay.io, or any registry of your choice.

              • Kusimulkku@lemm.ee
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                I wouldn’t exactly call that easy, but compared to how it used to be, fair enough.

    • krey@sh.itjust.works
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      what you do is: you make a chroot environment that has libButts.5.1 , so it isn’t really part of your system. you run your old app inside of it, so you can do your buttstuff in a safe environment

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      Most of the people who post these kinds of memes unironically, aren’t actual nix users

    • veng@lemmy.world
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      Anyone who’s feeling Linux savvy, try getting EAX working with some X-Fi hardware. Best of luck ;)

      • HeyMrDeadMan@lemmy.world
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        Someone probably could. But not me. I am not a software developer, and being one should not be a prerequisite to using an OS, despite what the memes in this very group might lead one to believe.

      • anonono@lemmy.world
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        that’s when you find out that the updated build environment is incompatible with the older libraries the project expected.

        usually the only escape is docker, or containerization to be correct, just give the old app and old environment.

        this wastes a lot of space though

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        Potentially but it’s not always that simple. I’ve literally encountered this exact scenario. OldeShit needs libY 1.9 but pacman is on 2.2. Can’t downgrade because libY uses 10 different libs collectively in the depends tree that explicitly need 2.0 or higher. So you take a look at libY and OldeShit builds only to realise several functions that libY provide have been reworked or removed, making it incompatible with OldeShit. As such OldeShit doesn’t build.

        As an aside, this is quite literally why Microsoft has several different VC Redistributables. To avoid this issue. But this also creates another issue. Lol.

  • nyakojiru@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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    The last character: I can make you spend an entire day trying to install some software or configuring something specific

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        Maybe I’m unique in this regard, but I can’t remember having any issues installing things on windows since Windows 7. Trying out Linux in college was fun and interesting, but I definitely spent more time futzing around with it to make it work the way that I want it to work.

        I think more people would take the Linux community here seriously if people just acknowledged the flaws with Linux based OSes and focused on the actual benefits of Linux over windows. (Which are getting more and more enticing as Microsoft makes windows more annoying.)

        • Black616Angel@feddit.de
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          I know what you mean and Linux can be the operating system with less issues as well. E.g. I never had printer issues with my system but have to troubleshoot others’ printers regularly.

          If you only use Linux for browsing and light office work you probably never encounter problems. Even if you play games via steam and Proton there probably will never be something.

          The same is true for Windows. If you only use it for a small subset of tasks (browsing, light office work or playing recent games) you will rarely encounter problems.

          But if you try to do so without a Microsoft account or if you don’t want a bloated start menu, it starts to get tricky.

          And don’t get me started on playing old games or getting some programming dependencies running. This can be hell.

          I know the flaws of windows (I’ve used it up until last year and still have to use it at work) and I also know the limitations of Linux. They are both not perfect, but Linux is free and Windows becomes more and more shit (as you’ve said). And this is where I don’t understand all the people saying, that windows is easier. It really isn’t anymore. It was a few years ago though.

          • TopRamenBinLaden@sh.itjust.works
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            I imagine that most people think Windows is easier because the majority of people grew up using Windows machines in schools, workplaces, etc. I think it could have to do with the sense of familiarity there.

            The other problem I think people have with Linux is that the fact that different distros confuses them. Most average people are afraid of the command line, and really want a GUI for everything. Many of these people’s first exposure to Linux could scare them away depending on the distro they happened to choose, I think.

            • Polar@lemmy.ca
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              Most average people are afraid of the command line, and really want a GUI for everything. Many of these people’s first exposure to Linux could scare them away depending on the distro they happened to choose, I think.

              Or it’s the fact the community is so toxic?

              Every computer, doesn’t matter brand or hardware, never works 100% out of the box on Linux. Doesn’t matter which distro.

              You ask online, and people scream at you to run terminal commands or go back to Windows.

              You run a terminal command that breaks your system, and people blame you for running random terminal commands…

              You go back to Windows, and people say “Linux is so friendly, you don’t even have to touch the terminal anymore if you really don’t want to!”

              Rinse and repeat.

      • assassin_aragorn@lemmy.world
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        A key distinction is how many of those problems are specifically because of Windows. Is a Windows feature creating the problem?

        The concept scares me quite a bit actually, having to fight my OS in addition to entire else I’m always trying to figure out.

        • nyakojiru@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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          Yeah I won’t say windows is better, I know Linux is superior. But windows is a mess with a reason, it works everywhere . But It can’t handle heavy operations , it’s bloated af … etc ir sucks for enterprise solutions. But for a personal computer or server simple apps, people don’t want to wait or struggle .

          • assassin_aragorn@lemmy.world
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            Yeah, Linux has a lot of good uses, it’s just not for everyone nor the average person. There’s no way the people who struggle with computer troubles could use Linux.

            I think that’s sometimes forgotten in all the memes. The people who could actually use Linux are a fairly small subset of all Windows users.

      • Polar@lemmy.ca
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        1 year ago

        99.9% of Windows software runs after you run the .exe

        Which programs require so much troubleshooting for you?

        • dave@hal9000@lemmy.world
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          I just spent 30+ minutes troubleshooting an MS office installer today that would just shut off after the splash screen, on a friend’s brand new laptop… But then again, I spent two hours trying to get my old Brother network scanner/printer on Manjaro a few weeks ago.

        • Underwaterbob@lemm.ee
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          I run Ubuntu at work where we have an Epson printer. My print jobs are mysteriously canceled ~50% of the time, and wouldn’t work at all throughout Ubuntu 20.10 and only started intermittently working with 22.10. (They were mysteriously quite reliable with 18.10.) Looking around on the Ubuntu forums, I was hardly alone. None of the posted fixes worked for my case, and seemed unreliable for others as well. A cursory Internet search shows me that printing problems are endemic to Linux and have been for a long time.

          We don’t have a Windows machine to compare, but the Mac on the front desk prints 100% of the time without fail barring paper jam or something else that is the fault of the printer.

  • eee@lemm.ee
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    Linux: “my users spend half their time troubleshooting”

    • Fixbeat@lemmy.ml
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      I am a Windows guy, but I occasionally have to work with Linux. I spend a lot of time googling weird problems with cryptic solutions. That’s my experience trying to do anything technical with Linux. I can’t really remember the last time I had a problem in windows, but that’s not to say windows is perfect. It’s taken a hit in usability recently, which is weird since they’ve had decades to refine things. I recently installed pop os as a dual boot and it’s been pretty great with the ability to play games. I haven’t really had to do anything technical and I find myself using it more than I thought.

      • torpak@discuss.tchncs.de
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        At least most problems under Linux have solutions and if you are really desperate you have the option to fix it yourself in the source or pay someone to do it. Under windows, if microsoft doesn’t care about your problem, you either find a workaround or live with it.

        • Honytawk@lemmy.zip
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          Because of the ginormous community, every problem has a solution in Windows.

          If it isn’t a Microsoft sanctioned solution, then multiple third party solutions exists that fix it.

          Windows has a hell of a lot more support than any Linux distribution does.

          • Nefyedardu@kbin.social
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            If it isn’t a Microsoft sanctioned solution, then multiple third party solutions exists that fix it.

            That’s not how this works. If it’s not a Microsoft-sancioned solution, it literally cannot be fixed no matter how much effort you put in. You need an API to work with Windows. If Microsoft does not provide you with an API, you can’t do it. And even if you find a way to hack together something, you have zero guarantee an update won’t just come along and fuck it. Linux distros are open source, you can change quite literally any thing about them. That is what that person was talking about.

            • halva@discuss.tchncs.de
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              the thing is, microsoft does provide stable, well-documented and backwards-compatible apis for just about anything imaginable, and even if that’s not enough, you can try interacting with the kernel directly

    • LemoineFairclough@sh.itjust.worksOP
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      I can’t say I share this experience as I spend a lot more than half my time using Linux watching documentaries on youtube in a web browser. If you are obsessed with personalization I could see this happening, but I happen to prefer using default (as in “possible to consistently re-apply”) settings on most things.

      Regardless, troubleshooting makes you better at resolving trouble that you didn’t bring about on your own, and life is defined by unexpected troubles. It is better to be antifragile than happy!

      • eee@lemm.ee
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        I guess you’re lucky (or much more tech-savvy than me). I tried to switch to linux once many years ago (pre-COVID, which is like ancient times now). It was horrible. Oh, I now need to learn about file systems and NTFS and ext3/4(?) - i guess i’ll try Linux on a separate, old hard drive. Ok, something didn’t work, I now have to figure out what driver wasn’t supported and what I need to download. Great, people on forums are helpful but they’re asking me a bunch of gibberish. Now I gotta figure out this command line thing. Oh cool some people built GUIs for certain stuff so i don’t need to play with the command line, but then the GUI doesn’t work occasionally and now I have to figure out if it’s the GUI that broke or something else. And then at some point I got stuck because of file permissions.

        • Ooops@kbin.social
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          Ok, something didn’t work, I now have to figure out what driver wasn’t supported and what I need to download.

          Unlike in Windows where you never need to download drivers. As executable binaries you have no chance of checking. Sometimes from very questionable sources. And actually you can be happy if it’s only a driver. Installing random 3rd party tools just to get basic functionality is a thing.

          people on forums are helpful

          Which also happens for Windows. But rarely. And if they really try… then there are still 10 different answers to a single problem and you have to test which one works for your specific version (no, chosing the most recent one sounds logical but is rarely the answer).

          Now I gotta figure out this command line thing. Oh cool some people built GUIs for certain stuff so i don’t need to play with the command line

          Which in what way is worse then editing random obscure values in the registry? Because it’s a window you type in. And in the worst case even the Windows help starts with poweshell nowadays, which is exactly the same.

          And then at some point I got stuck because of file permissions.

          That’s a solveable problem. Unlike in Windows where they put file permissions on top a file system not having them in a weird unintutive way. And don’t ever try to change the wrong permission as an administrator as that’s simply not allowed. After all you don’t own your Windows PC, MS just gratiously allows you to use it.

          So, you see… it’s all a matter of perspective.

          • Hawke@lemmy.world
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            10 different answers

            No there’s only ever one answer and it’s “have you tried ‘sfc /scannow’?” But it never works, even if it finds an alleged problem.

        • Nefyedardu@kbin.social
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          Trying to use proprietary drivers and NTFS on Linux is trying to fit a square peg in a round hole. People work hard to make it work and maybe it does with a little effort but the proprietary model and Linux distros just don’t mesh well together. If you make it a point to purchase hardware that has open source drivers and use open source software (and as a consumer, you probably should anyway), everything does just work. Obviously this may not suit your use case and Linux may just not be for you.

          • Captain Aggravated@sh.itjust.works
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            NTFS is okay if you’re mounting a drive that you share with a Windows machine but don’t actually install Linux to an NTFS partition please. Most of the “beginner friendly” distros I don’t think even let you.

            • gizmonicus@sh.itjust.works
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              There’s no way that would work, would it? I can’t imagine installing linux to an NTFS volume and it actually functioning.

        • LemoineFairclough@sh.itjust.worksOP
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          If I was in your situation, I would try installing openSUSE or Fedora Linux on a computer where you don’t care if the entire disk gets wiped occasionally, using a flash drive you also don’t care about getting wiped occasionally. They probably have sufficiently comprehensive installers and installation instructions for you to succeed in using one of them, and if you don’t care about the content of the disks you use you’ll be more willing to experiment with the installation process (even though it’s unlikely your computer will work worse due to trying to install a Linux distribution). If you use a computer that has become slower and less usable than you’d like you will probably be pleasantly surprised by the results!

          Also, you can back up your product keys and prepare a Microsoft Windows installation disk if being able to go back to Windows 10 makes you more comfortable with experimenting.

          Overall, Linux enhanced my ability to to get productive work done, and also the opportunity to experiment and learn more about how to use computers to solve problems. I think learning how to use a GNU operating system is a good long term investment, though if you still need to keep around at least one computer that runs Microsoft Windows to protect your income I won’t disparage you.

      • gizmonicus@sh.itjust.works
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        The key to customization is not going out of bounds. If you customize, do it the way it was intended to be customized, not by finding weird, hacky shit that works like some kind of digital Rube Goldberg machine. If you find yourself writing convoluted bash scripts, and dredging up plugins on GitHub with the last commit from 2012, you’re on a crash course with destiny.

        • BearOfaTime@lemm.ee
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          Hey, how’d you see what I’ve done to my Android phone?

          Cause this exactly describes what I do to it. Then I get weird conflicts. Lol. I do it to myself.

        • LemoineFairclough@sh.itjust.worksOP
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          I was primarily noting that I usually don’t engage in unnecessary and unproductive customization, as there will always be some way you could meet your desires a little better, but unless you’re creating and documenting an automated system like https://larbs.xyz/ or even just “copy this file to ~/.profile” your customizations will eventually be lost when your system fails, leaving you with new reason to spend more time customizing.

          As the video I linked said: if computers are as powerful as the universe and the universe was created in billions of years, you may only be done customizing billions of years from now (and at that point you will have had even more billions of years to come up with new ways you want to improve your customization).

          If I’m spending time on something that won’t result in an update to a git repository, or a Lemmy comment, or even speaking to someone in person or me acquiring more property, I consider it more frivolous than not.

    • torpak@discuss.tchncs.de
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      I have to use windows at work. I have to spend a lot more time trouble shooting there than on my bleeding edge rolling release linux at home.

      • Honytawk@lemmy.zip
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        That is because you perform more work on your work computer instead of browsing lemmy all day.

    • Kusimulkku@lemm.ee
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      I’ve had hard time troubleshooting on Windows because everything is obfuscated behind so many layers. And there’s just things you can’t feasibly do. But it does seem to work well most of the time.

      • gizmonicus@sh.itjust.works
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        That’s categorically untrue. As long as you stick with well supported, mainstream distributions, most things just work. Given the vast diversity of window managers, init systems, boot loaders, desktop environments, package managers, graphical interface systems, audio systems, and so on… it’s surprising how well things do just generally work in most cases.

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        Gee, I must have imagined writing a novel on a laptop running Linux, with nothing giving any trouble at all.

        I guess my imagination is even better than I thought!

        Sadly, that means that the second novel I’m halfway through must be imaginary too. A shame to have imagined that much imagining.

        Seriously, that’s just this laptop, it doesn’t count the ones on desktop before that, also on Linux.

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        And here we have a Windows power user that gave Linux a half-hearted attempt sometime in the last decade, never attempted to learn anything, and failed… so obviously Linux is broken. It surely isn’t his own ineptitude, it’s definitely Linux, it doesn’t matter that 90% of all web and cloud infrastructure runs on. It doesn’t matter tech illiterate people like my 80+ year old grandparents get by without any problems on it. It doesn’t matter it blows Windows out of the water in terms of customization, workflows, reliability, control, and privacy for advanced users. He couldn’t figure out whatever Windows thing he was trying in the first 2 hours he used it, so it obviously is broken.

        I find it hilarious when Windows power users try Linux, realize that they are not actually the computer experts they see themselves as but merely Windows power users. They get salty about it and blame Linux for not being confined to their own limited idea on how an OS should work… you know, like Windows. Then make a bunch of bullshit assumptions and statements that are completely wrong to make themselves feel better about failing to understand an amazing OS.

        • Cornelius_Wangenheim@lemmy.world
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          Similarly, about 90% of the complaints I see linux users make about Windows are actually limitations in their understanding or are just outdated and no longer apply.

          • somedaysoon@lemmy.world
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            I know more about Windows than I do about Linux… I used it for decades. Windows lacks customization, and it has dogshit workflows. It sends telemetry data, and it advertises to you. Those are the reasons that I no longer consider it.

          • somedaysoon@lemmy.world
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            I truly believe Linux is great for basic users, and also Linux is great for advanced users. The only people that have problems with it are insecure Windows power users that want to think they understand how a computer works, but really have no idea.

              • somedaysoon@lemmy.world
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                I can’t imagine being that desperate for validation. I know you’re a LTT bro that’s offended by my assessment, the only advice I have to offer… don’t be so insecure and fragile, learn from it.

  • Crow@lemmy.world
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    I think we should stop trying to figure out what operating system is superior, and just focus on shitting on Microsoft windows.

    • LemoineFairclough@sh.itjust.worksOP
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      I think both macOS and Android are inherently superior to anything I’ve ever used that was created by Microsoft.

      Multiple versions of macOS are UNIX® Certified Products according to the institution that publishes the POSIX standards: https://www.opengroup.org/openbrand/register/brand3688.htm https://www.opengroup.org/openbrand/register/brand3673.htm

      Android is a mobile operating system based on a modified version of the Linux kernel” so it is surely easier to liberate yourself by using Android than by using Microsoft Windows.

      • hansl@lemmy.world
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        Windows NT had a lot of UNIX code in it and was fully POSIX compatible. But then came the Win32 code, and XP became what it is.

        • TheInsane42@lemmy.world
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          And Windows NT was the result of the failed joint venture with IBM while developing OS/2. While IBM wanted stability and preferred to let the user wait at power up until the IS was sure everything checked out, MS wanted fast user satisfaction and if things fail, just let the user reboot.

          I prefer to get a cup of coffee when the computer boot up at the start of the day, but no, ‘the market’ preferred a quick start and regular coffee breaks during the day. I’d almost suspect MS from having stocks in the coffee industry.

          Which OS is better? The one that meets the user’s needs. I’m glad there is choice, my choice isn’t everybody’s choice. The Windows desktop at work comes with a helpdesk, which works fine for me. (when I need them, but I’ll deny any knowledge of Windows ;) )

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        When I bought my first (and only) smartphone, I figured that since it was using this partially open source linux-based OS, I’d be able to customise it, get rid of crapware, and remove google’s hooks from it. But I was wrong. I wasn’t able to do any of those things. Because of that, I don’t have a particularly favourable view towards Android.

        • miss_brainfart@lemmy.ml
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          Actual, vanilla AOSP is a pretty good system. But as soon as a manufacturer takes it and puts their own stuff on top, things get annoying.

    • /home/pineapplelover@lemm.ee
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      By shitting on Windows you’re saying anything that isn’t Windows is superior. Now you’re just being a hypocrite.

        • /home/pineapplelover@lemm.ee
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          Crow doesn’t want us to classify which operating systems are superior, yet, believes that every operating system that isn’t Windows is superior.

          • DrQuint@lemm.ee
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            which are

            That’s the error. The word “are” isn’t even a part of their comment. They don’t want people finding the one, singular, that is above the rest. They proposed flipping the competition. Finding the worst. That leaves no top-most judgement for the rest, no hypocrisy with that.

          • LemoineFairclough@sh.itjust.worksOP
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            I interpreted their comment as “There are at least two tiers of things: things that are Microsoft Windows and those that aren’t, and the tier that includes Microsoft Windows is not the most superior tier”. I don’t think that’s hypocritical.

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        Windows users? I mean the reason why Linux users proclaim the superiority of Linux is because Windows users always say that they want to leave Windows but XYZ doesn’t work or Linux, making Linux look like it’s feature poor which isn’t the case.

        • Kayn@dormi.zone
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          They aren’t saying that Linux is feature poor. They’re just saying that Linux doesn’t fit their use case.

          Big difference.

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            But they continue to complain instead of learn to adapt. I have a friend who needs help every week and I told him I am charging for windows help from here on because this is stupid.

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              I’ve heard more Linux users complain about Windows than Windows users, and there are plenty more of em.

              Usually also using arguments that have either aren’t relevant anymore, or are just plainly false like the one in the post.

        • TAG@lemmy.world
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          Linux, as an OS, is much more feature rich. What it lacks is applications. There are many applications out there that are only available for Windows or OSX and there is no Linux app to do the same thing (or the Linux app is very far behind in quality). The inverse (a Linux only app) is rarely true, except for applications that are niche or heavily rely on an OS feature that does not have a close equivalent on Windows.

          Plus, just about every piece of (consumer) hardware that can be connected to a computer has a Windows driver.

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            And another thing you can add to that fact is that Windows users gets to enjoy the best of the Linux apps. VLC, Gimp, Audacity, OBS, etc. That’s a big reason why Windows is even usable for an average user.

            Around half my applications on Windows were FOSS even before I moved to Linux and I used them for a long time. The proprietary apps I did use, I don’t really miss. I also doubt anybody actually likes having to install drivers on Windows or browse the web for apps. It’s just extra bullshit.

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    I don’t have a printer.

    I don’t like open ports.

    Decides to remove CUPS.

    “apt list -i *cups*”

    There are like 7 CUPS packages and dependencies.

    for each package “apt remove cups --simulate”

    Get to package 6 and decide ‘Ok. No major issues, looks fine.’

    For the first 6 packages “sudo apt remove CUPS

    This is easy and painless!

    On 7th …

    Removing cups-pk or some shit… Removing mint-common… Removing cinnamon-desktop…

    Oh, fuck

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        When I was new to Linux I broke EVERYTHING.

        Often.

        The more you break, the more you learn.

        Nobody tells me I can’t modify this file.

        Eg. I once accidentally chmodded the entire root directory. (Recursion incident)

        Linux does not like when the root fs permissions are ALL changed.

        I had no internet at the time. And no idea what timeshift was.

        Thankfully, I had a library card.

        Learned a lot about permissions that month.

        (I enjoy doing things the hard way)

        • Chewy@discuss.tchncs.de
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          Did you manage to get your system working again? Iirc I did the same on Arch a few years ago and it wasn’t too bad to restore the system after looking at the permissions on a fresh install (maybe a container or vm, idr).

          • masterofn001@lemmy.ca
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            I tried. It was so long ago now I can’t even remember. It was xubuntu, though.

            But, I’m pretty sure I had to take it down to the local shop and get a copy of the iso since I didn’t have a fresh install to compare. (This wasn’t the only time I absolutely borked my machine)

            Nowadays, I backup everything. I image the partitions. I create a separate partition for home. And I know what to never touch.

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              Agreed, backups are important. Before switching to NixOS (or image based OS like Fedora Silverblue) I made use of automatic btrfs snapshots. This makes these kinds of screw-ups simple to revert.

              I’d like to say an overly optimistic chmod -R didn’t happen again but my old Nextcloud instance would like a word.

              Thanks for reminding to do my backups again. I’ve recently build a server with enough storage so I’ll probably setup restic or borg. That means I can bring my external backup HDD over to my family as an offline/offsite backup.

    • GreenBottles@lemmy.world
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      I did something very similar while I was drunkenly troubleshooting issues on an old laptop and I gave up as soon as I saw the desktop going I just closed the lid and reformatted the next day

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      For some reason the entire global economy depends on imagemagik working. Only Linus and the Illuminati know why.

    • markon@lemmy.world
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      Actually… The Steam Deck runs on Valve’s custom Arch Linux. To say there is no steady userbase is simply not true.

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        Touché. I would like to counter that with “Not a desktop though” and end my turn with “wine required to use company software”

        • TeddE@lemmy.world
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          Between Microsoft’s open source Vulcan enhancements and Valve’s everything else enhancements both being contributed upstream, “Wine required” doesn’t have quite the same punch it used to.

          Pours myself a shot for having to thank Microsoft

          • Nobsi@feddit.de
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            It is very true. Nobody buys a steamdeck to be a desktop replacement. Nobody does work on a steamdeck. It might theoretically work, but most steamdeck owners game on it and thats it.

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              I dont think you’re right about that. Browse through the steam deck subreddit and community here and you’ll see plenty of posts of people using the steam deck for work and productivity as well as gaming. I myself use it both as a console and as a laptop more or less. Its a very nice portable Linux desktop

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        What a dishonest argument. They’re using a curated overlay for Linux that mostly hides the Linux part from them completely. The fact that there’s a “Desktop Mode” doesn’t change the fact that 99% of Steam Deck users aren’t in Desktop mode.

        Edit: If someone bought a smart appliance with a screen whose software was Linux on the backend, we wouldn’t count people who bought that appliance (a refrigerator, for example) as “Linux users”. The Steam Deck is the same way for 95% of its users.

        • Doxin@yiffit.net
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          They’re using a curated overlay for Linux

          This is commonly known as a “distro”. SteamOS is just particularly good at being user friendly for it’s fairly narrow use-case.

          • Zoolander@lemmy.world
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            SteamOS is the distro. Big Picture/Steam Deck is an overlay for the Steam application and what the majority of Steam Deck users are using and experiencing. They’re not using it for day to day applications and browsing the internet.

            • Doxin@yiffit.net
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              I’d probably call Big Picture the Desktop environment in this case. Yes it’s a simplified linux experience, but it’s not not linux.

              • Zoolander@lemmy.world
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                The point is that you could swap what OS it is in the background and it wouldn’t make a difference that it’s Linux. The Steam Deck could be running Windows with Big Picture on top of it and no one would be the wiser. It’s misleading to say that Steam Deck users are Linux users if they don’t even use any of the Linux environment.

                • Doxin@yiffit.net
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                  But that’s true for anything. you could swap out the OS under gnome and most users wouldn’t notice either.

  • Matriks404@lemmy.world
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    Yeah, you can run old app on Linux, as long as you compile it manually while solving a shitton of dependency problems.

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    I’m predominantly a Windows user. However I dual boot with Mint as I am trying to get away from Windows. It’s really not easy but I’m trying.

    I gotta say though these types of posts make me cringe. I really don’t know why some Linux users put themselves on a pedestal all the time. You make these sorts of smug posts making out that Linux is perfect. I have never installed Linux and had it just work. There is always something that requires searching the web for a fix and firing up the terminal to start changing something in /etc/.

    I get it. You’re proud of your technology. But vegans are proud they don’t eat animal products. We don’t need to keep selling it to the rest of the world.

    • Honytawk@lemmy.zip
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      Linux users need something to make them feel superior using an OS with a tiny marketshare.

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          Something can cost $0 and still participate in the market. The cost to use something can even be negative $ (e.g. Bing paying you to use it).

          • Polar@lemmy.ca
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            Shhh. The Linux users brain is too filled with Terminal commands. They can’t be learning new stuff like that!

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    Linux is smiling because he accidentally deleted the file system while trying to check how much space was free, but now he’s free from the hell that is modern computing.

    • voidMainVoid@lemmy.world
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      I was having trouble getting a DVD ripped, so I thought “Fuck it. I’m going to try dd”. I used .iso for the file extension, and it worked.

      • ferret@sh.itjust.works
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        I mean that is more a product of how .iso files are just the whole disk as a binary with a file extension

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    I had the opposite problem with Windows 11.

    My typical way of shutting down my machine was Alt-D, Show Desktop, then Alt-F4, which brings up a shutdown menu.

    For whatever reason in Win 11, they made this menu unable to trigger updates. So for the first several months of my Win 11 install it was quietly never receiving any updates at all.